为什么中国人总说日本起源于中国

Why do the Chinese always say that Japan originated in China?

为什么中国人总说日本起源于中国

以下是Quora读者的评论：

Sosow Nima

We,the Chinese themselves haven’t really said this seriously, but I think it’s indeed true. Before around 1850—if we look back a thousand years—virtually all the literature from Japan, the Korean Peninsula, and Vietnam can still be read without much difficulty by Chinese people today, whereas the citizens of those countries themselves can barely recognize it.

When the Japanese emperor emerged as a political symbol, three treasures were associated with him: a jade piece, a bronze mirror, and an iron sword. In my view, this was very likely a symbolic reconciliation of the intense political struggles of the time, when Japan was absorbing advanced civilization from China: the clash between indigenous stone culture, the bronze culture brought from China, and the iron culture, also introduced from China.

Frankly, if Chinese history books were stripped of all records about those three countries, it wouldn’t make much difference. But if those countries removed all references to China, then—there would be no history books left, only works of fiction.

In any case, China is generous: we don’t mind how much “fiction” you write. Archaeologists and historians in the international community, when not doing research, might even enjoy reading a bit of this Eastern “fiction.”

我们中国人自己倒没真把这话当回事儿正经说过，但我觉得事实大抵如此。回溯至1850年前后——若再往前推一千年，日本、朝鲜半岛与越南的几乎所有文献，今天的中国人读来仍没什么障碍，而这些国家的国民自己，反倒已难识其貌。

当年日本天皇作为政治符号出现时，相传其持有三件信物：一块玉、一面青铜镜、一柄铁剑。在我看来，这很可能是对当时日本吸纳中国先进文明之际，那场激烈政治博弈的象征性和解——那是本土石器文化，与自中国传入的青铜文化、铁器文化之间的碰撞与融合。

说实话，若从中国史书里删去所有关于这三国的记载，于中国历史而言并无太大影响。可若这三国的典籍里抹去所有与中国相关的痕迹——那便再无史书可言，只剩虚构的故事罢了。

也罢，中国向来宽厚：你们要写多少“故事”，我们都不在意。国际上的考古学家与历史学家们，即便不做研究时，或许也会乐意读一读这东方的“传奇”。

Feng Lu

The Chinese didn't say that.

It was Westerners who said that.

China has long known about the exstence of indigenous peoples in Japan.

中国人没这么说过。是西方人这么说的。中国早就知道日本有原住民存在。

Thai Nguyen Gia

Because it’s Chinese habit that everything and everyone must originate from China.

Not just Japan, we Vietnamese also get that treatment as well~

They refuse to see local civilizations, even with all the archaelogical artifacts dug up that got carbon dating way earlier than Chinese expeditions ever arrived at the place.

That’s the only way to make Qin’s Xu Fu mission become origin of Japan, by denying Jomon artifacts.

After all, that the same thing they do to Vietnamese history: Qin’s Zhao Guo must be the first king of Vietnam and never mind all the older artifacts dug up in Dong Son or many other places.

因为中国人有个习惯，好像所有事物、所有人都得起源于中国。不光是日本，我们越南人也被这么说呢。

他们不肯承认当地的原生文明，哪怕挖出来的考古文物经碳定年检测，年代比中国探险队抵达这里早得多。要把秦朝徐福东渡说成是日本的起源，就只能靠否认绳文时代的文物。

毕竟，他们对越南历史也玩这一套：秦朝的赵佗非得是越南的开国君主，至于在东山等地挖出来的那些更古老的文物，他们压根儿不管。

Sekiguchi Masanori

Those who do are either idiots or brainwashed with anti-Japan propaganda.

持这种观点的人，要么是蠢货，要么就是被反日宣传洗了脑。

James Lim

Why do the Chinese always say that Japan originated in China?

I have never heard any Chinese saying that… maybe you should show some evidence that they do…

Can't discuss much until some evidence of your statement is seen…

为什么中国人总说日本起源于中国？

我从没听过有中国人这么说，或许你该拿出点证据来证明真有这种说法

在看到能支撑你说法的证据之前，没什么好讨论的

Khengchat Ng

From my limited reading, the Japanese people originate from one of four kingdoms that inhabited the Korean Peninsula. That kingdom is no longer with us, hence Japanese names are so dissimilar to other East Asians. That Qin Shi Huang Ti story about sending philosophers to Japan in search of the elixr of life is interesting. It just shows he and the Chinese already looked to Japan as an equal.

根据我有限的阅读了解，日本人的起源与曾居住在朝鲜半岛的四个王国之一有关。那个王国现已不复存在，因此日本人的姓名与其他东亚人相比差异很大。秦始皇派方士前往日本寻求长生不老药的故事很有意思，这恰恰说明他和当时的中国人早已将日本视为平等的存在。

Zhichang Ming

I’m a Chinese but I’ve never said that Japan originated in China. Yet it’s undeniable that Chinese culture has deeply influenced Japan throughout history. Firstly China has been a much stronger power in all aspects compared with Japan until late 19th century, secondly Japan sits in the place that can be called the “end of the road” before cross-Pacific navigation was possble, which means everything in the rest of the world has to arrive in China before being relayed to Japan.

我是中国人，但从没说过日本起源于中国。不过，历史上中国文化对日本产生了深远影响，这一点无可否认。首先，直到19世纪末以前，中国在各方面都比日本强大得多；其次，在跨太平洋航行成为可能之前，日本所处的位置可以说是“路的尽头”——这意味着当时世界其他地方的一切事物，都得先传到中国，再中转到日本。

Joseph Villanueva

It’s more of a flex than an actual historical claim. Both countries like to outdo each other in terms of culture, history, pop culture, cuisine, etc. Just because Japanese culture (nobility) was heavily influenced by Chinese culture, they were not Sinicised, both countries enjoyed tea, held Confucian teachings in high regard and made reference to Mandate of Heaven but Chinese Emperors have never claimed to be descended from gods unlike the Japanese Emperors who claim descent from the Sun God Amaterasu or whatever.

As for the claim that “Japan originated in China”, it has some truth in it. More like Japan originated in Korea since they’re closer and they have trade relations.

这种说法与其说是严肃的历史论断，不如说是一种炫耀。中日两国总爱在文化、历史、流行文化、美食等方方面面较劲。虽说日本文化（尤其是贵族文化）深受中国文化影响，但日本并未完全汉化：两国都饮茶，都推崇儒家思想，也都提及 “天命”，但中国的皇帝从未宣称自己是神的后裔，而日本天皇则自称是太阳神天照大神之类神明的后代。

至于 “日本起源于中国” 的说法，有几分道理，但更准确地说，日本或许起源于朝鲜 —— 毕竟两国地理位置更近，而且历史上就有贸易往来。

David Chan

Because for millennia, Japanese culture was heavily influenced by Chinese culture. There is a myth in China that Japan arose from Chinese settlers who were searching for the elexur if immortality sent by the First Emperor.

Of course these are myths. You might as well claim Vietnam originated in China for similar reasons.

几千年来，日本文化一直深受中国文化的影响。中国有一个传说，称日本是由秦始皇派去寻找长生不老药的方士及其随从发展而来的。当然，这些都只是传说。出于类似的理由，你或许也可以声称越南起源于中国。

Gifford Delle

Why do so many mainland Chinese believe that Japanese people, culture, and language came from China?

Because Chinese people, culture, and language came first.

Japan (and its slightly older brother Korea) are both babies compared to civilization in China. It’s something Chinese people are pretty darn proud of, so don’t expect them to be wrong about it too.

The People:

Perhaps the best proof is in looking at the long list of rulers of each country:

为什么这么多中国内地人认为日本人、日本文化和日语都起源于中国？

因为中国的人、文化和语言出现得更早。比起中国文明，日本都像个 “小婴儿”。这是中国人相当引以为傲的一点，所以别指望他们会承认自己的这种想法是错的。

关于人：或许最有力的证据就是对比两国一长串的统治者列表

The most important thing to notice here is that the first Japanese emperor with an actual possibility of exsting did not come along until 97 BC. Chinese Emperors exsted with a pretty impressive record for over a thousand years before that.

There’s plenty of other proofs though …

Oracle bone
Erlitou culture
Terracotta Army

最关键的一点是，日本第一位有可能真实存在的天皇要到公元前 97 年才出现，而在此之前一千多年，中国就已有记载详实的帝王了。

不过还有很多其他证据……

甲骨文

二里头文化

兵马俑

The Culture:

Most archaeologists, anthropologists and historians would agree that Chinese civilization exsted at least 1000 years before Japan and Korea had their own unique civilizations established.

Earliest Period in Korean history: Gojoseon Kingdom, which could be ballparked at being formed at around the 700 BC: Gojoseon.
Japan is even more of a baby, with the Kofun period being the earlisest recorded era in Japanese history circa 250 AD: Kofun period.
The Shang Dynasty (which is when the first form of written Chinese, the Oracle Bones, were dated) began in 1600 BC and this isn’t even considered the first dynasty ..Shang dynasty

关于文化：

大多数考古学家、人类学家和历史学家都会认同，中国文明的出现至少比日本和韩国形成自己独特的文明早 1000 年。

朝鲜历史最早可追溯至约公元前 700 年建立的古朝鲜王国。

日本则更晚，其历史上最早有记载的时代是约公元 250 年开始的古坟时代。

而中国的商朝（正是甲骨文这种最早的汉字形式出现的时期）始于公元前 1600 年，且商朝还不算中国的第一个朝代……

The Language:

Japanese (and Korean) while influenced by Chinese phonology and morphology in many ways (both use or have used the Chinese writing system) do have their own extant language families. However, while these modern terms: 電話, 国際, 原子 are borrowed by Chinese, they don’t have much to do with the enormous amount of influence that the Chinese language had on sha Japanese to be what it is today.

Korean and Japanese borrowed from Chinese A LONG TIME AGO (modern day conceptions of new words being less relevant to the foundations of a language) so the words that were borrowed a thousand years ago most likely changed a lot between then and now, some phonetic similarities between languages are quite interesting, (for example you brought up):

Telephone: 電話 → Diànhuà (Chinese) 電話 → Denwa (Japanese)

关于语言：

日语（还有韩语）在语音和形态上深受汉语影响（两者都使用或曾使用汉字书写系统），但它们确实有自己独立的语系。不过，虽说 “电话”“国际”“原子” 这些现代词汇是汉语从日语借用的，但这丝毫不影响汉语对日语形成所产生的巨大影响。

韩语和日语早在很久以前就从汉语中大量借词（现代新词的借用与语言根基的形成关系不大），所以一千多年前借过去的词汇，到现在很可能已经发生了很大变化，但语言间仍存在一些有趣的语音相似性，比如你提到的：

电话：電話→中文（Diànhuà）、日语（Denwa）

You also stated that since they belong to different language families they come from different origins. This is perhaps a misguided perception. A language family is a modern way to organize languages that we speak TODAY, there is a lot we don’t know about extinct languages that could have exsted 1000 - 3000 years ago that could have attributed a lot to Korean and Japanese, and thus be a reason that we can’t find the link to their ancestor. So when talking about how they are connected, language might be the least relevant link.

The Altaic theory: Altaic languages (as there is a lot of controversy surrounding these languages in the linguistic community) is something interesting to read into a little. Nevertheless there were a ton of languages in eastern Siberia and Manchuria during the origins of these civilizations. A lot of them are still around, but most aren’t, Jurchen for example is one that had a lot of influence on culture and language in an area of the world that was not yet culturally established as “Korea”.

Tungusic languages are also very cool: auto-correct even thinks it’s not an English word (LOL) Tungusic languages

你还说过，因为它们属于不同语系，所以起源不同。这种看法或许有失偏颇。语系是现代对当下所用语言的分类方式，对于 1000 到 3000 年前可能存在过的已灭绝语言，我们还有很多未知 —— 这些语言很可能对韩语和日语产生了重大影响，这也正是我们找不到它们祖先语言关联的原因。所以在谈论中日韩的联系时，语言可能是最不相关的一环。

阿尔泰语系理论：阿尔泰语系（语言学界对这类语言存在诸多争议）是个值得深入了解的话题。尽管如此，在这些文明起源的时期，东西伯利亚和满洲地区存在大量语言。其中一些流传至今，但大部分已经消失，比如女真语 —— 它曾对当时尚未形成 “朝鲜” 这一文化概念的地区的文化和语言产生过深远影响。

通古斯语族也很有意思：连自动拼写检查都觉得这不是个英文单词（哈哈）。