Has China finally caught up in Jet Engines?

中国航空发动机终于追上来了吗？

以下是各国网友的评论：

canadadry0g
Elon Musk once laughed at BYD and that kind of smugness people exhibits applied against China's jet engines as well.
Well how time have changed.

埃隆·马斯克当初嘲讽过比亚迪，现在不少人看待中国航空发动机的时候，也是抱着同样自大傲慢的心态。

世事变迁，如今早已今非昔比。

 

deezeed2817
Yes but BYD also was able to benefit because of the Jet engine program. You have to understand being able to manufacture jet engines spills over into nearly every industry you can think off. What China learnt from thermal coating spilled into battery manufacturing. What China learnt from FADEC allowed companies like BYD to create much more efficient battery management systems. It allowed for tighter engineering standards and quality control. The ability to manufacture the most complex systems that man has designed so far ultimately advances the entire supply chain.

没错，比亚迪其实也受益于航空发动机研发项目。要知道，航空发动机的制造技术可以辐射带动几乎所有行业。

中国在发动机耐热涂层上积累的技术，用到了动力电池生产上；

从发动机全权限数字控制系统（FADEC）吃透的技术，帮助比亚迪这类企业研发出能效更高的电池管理系统；

整套研发也倒逼工业设计标准、品控体系全面升级。

能造出人类迄今为止结构最复杂的工业装备，最终会拉动整条产业链整体进步。

 

johnrobert2148
A byd is mostly electrical, a jet engine is mostly mechanical. A mechanical machine is far more difficult to produce hence why the chinese went directly to electric.

比亚迪整车以电气系统为主，航空发动机纯机械结构占大头。机械精密装备的制造难度要大得多，这也是为什么中国当初优先发力电动车赛道。

 

Nmin34
They fixed that by gifting him a China factory and stole all of the technology. That's why all the Tesla type cars did not exst before that point. Also Tesla admitted their source code got stolen lol. But one key point is byd has not had any significant innovation since the thefts and are at a similar level to Tesla

中方给马斯克落地中国工厂，趁机偷走了特斯拉全部技术才实现超车。在那之前市面上根本没有同类型电动车，特斯拉也亲口承认过源代码被盗。但有个关键点：比亚迪窃取技术之后再也没有重磅创新，如今技术水平也就和特斯拉持平。

 

hjhghj462
@Nmin34 tesla was on the verge of bankruptcy ignored by everyone. China was its sole benefactor, enabling it to continue develo electric vehicles. basically, China's rights and interests like effectively owns half of tesla's equity, which explains elon musk's political deference towards China.
But one key point is: Does tesla have BYD U8 and U9 models with the same functions? The U8 proved its worth in various natural disasters, U9 broke the world record for the fastest production car. and your tesla?what else can do besides spontaneous combustion?

特斯拉当年濒临破产，无人问津，是中国唯一伸出援手，才让它得以继续研发电动车。说白了，中方的权益几乎等同于手握特斯拉一半股权，这也是马斯克在对华政策上格外谨慎的原因。

再说重点：特斯拉有比亚迪仰望U8、U9这种同级功能的车型吗？U8在各类自然灾害里经受住了考验，U9拿下了最快量产车世界纪录。反观特斯拉，除了频繁自燃还有什么拿得出手的亮点？

 

MGZetta
China has both engineers and now money. If you still think they can't make anything advanced, I think the problem is in your head.

中国现在既不缺工程师，也不缺研发资金。如果还固执认为中国造不出高端装备，那只能说明是你的认知跟不上了。

 

shanerooney7288
People formed their opinions in the 1990s and haven't updated them since.

很多人对中国的印象还停留在上世纪90年代，这么多年从来没有更新过。

 

 

yuriiitaly
"I claim that the Chinese are incapable of doing this. Why? Because we saw it from their exports—when they delivered their fighter jets to Pakistan, the Pakistanis gave up on them because the engines were failing mid-flight. Moreover, they were constantly breaking down even on the ground. So they said, 'Throw these engines away and let's buy them directly from Russia.' Those were the engines used in the MiG-29, and, accordingly, in the Chinese fighter jet copies."

“我断言中国人搞不定航空发动机，依据就是他们的军机出口案例。当初中国交付战机给巴基斯坦，巴方直接弃用，原因就是发动机空中频繁故障，哪怕停在地面也故障不断。最后巴方干脆拆掉国产发动机，直接采购俄罗斯产品，这批发动机就是米格29所用型号，也是中国仿制战机搭载的同款。”

 

domokun845
Realize the main reason they lagged behind was due to manufacturing process of growing the single crystal turbofan blades that's needed to sustain the incredibly high heat requirements. When you're just making copies, AL-31 FNs are fine. When you move to designing your own then they have to scale up. In a country of engineers anyone betting against them would be stupid. It's like the same with semiconductors, they were fine just using Nvidia but once you put a ban on them, well, you open Pandoras box.
This started with the WZ-10 it's not a new development its just something people haven't been paying attention to.

中国早年发动机落后，核心卡在单晶涡轮风扇叶片的制造工艺上，这种叶片要承受极致高温，量产难度极大。单纯仿制俄制AL-31FN发动机尚可凑合，一旦走向自主正向研发，全套工艺都要从零攻坚。

一个工程师储备极其庞大的国家，赌它搞不定高端制造本身就是不明智的。半导体行业也是同理，之前安心采购英伟达芯片，一旦被西方全面封锁，反倒倒逼中国打通全产业链，等于打开了潘多拉魔盒。

航发自主攻坚最早从直10武装直升机项目就启动了，并非近期才发力，只是外界一直没有持续关注。

 

mtx1212
If there's one area China has really improved in the last decade or so -- it's Material Science

过去十几年里，中国进步最跨越式的领域，当属材料科学。

 

serioussilliness2064
2 areas, the number one is charisma. And not because it even had to do any spectacular awesome thing, it just built and worked with peeps... by comparison, every other power has done its part to make China look good.
The E.U. is full of infighting.
Russia went into Ukraine and reeks of desperation, India has its issues external and internal, doing far worse against Pakistan than people thought it would, plenty to say about the M.E. and elsewhere, but most of all, well...
The Great American Empire has finally lost its mask.

两大方面吧，第一是国际影响力。倒不是中国刻意做了多少惊天大事，只是埋头建设、坚持多边合作。反观其他大国，反倒不断衬托出中国的优势：欧盟内部派系内斗不断；俄罗斯深陷俄乌冲突，处境被动；印度内外矛盾缠身，对阵巴基斯坦的表现远低于外界预期；中东等地区更是乱象丛生。最关键的是，美利坚帝国的虚伪面纱终于彻底被撕碎了。

 

monkeyx8456
No, if there really was such a thing, it would be soldiers in straw sandals doing push-ups.

得了吧，真要说技术突破，怕又是草鞋士兵苦练俯卧撑式的自我感动罢了。

 

anxum4208
I love material and engineering, the book by William d Calister is great for passing college exams.

我本身很喜欢材料学和工程学科，威廉·卡利斯特写的专业教材用来应付大学考试特别好用。

 

hellojam100
We are still ahead of China on fragmentation bonbs and rap music

我们在集束炸弹和说唱音乐这两块，依旧领先中国。

 

Cririkaltinking
Every sector in china is always a matter of when not if.
Once they know they have enough experience to improve and innovate then nobody can stop them

中国各个高端产业，最终突破只是时间早晚问题，不存在能不能搞定的疑问。

只要积累足够经验开始迭代创新，就没有外力能够拦得住。

 

aa1944-k2r
i started studying chinese military equipment in around 2007-2008, i remember the first biggest thing that came up was the J10B prototype, featuring AESA radar and DSI intake...then the next big things were probably the appearance of J20 prototype in 2011 and the Y20 prototype for the airforce and the first 052D destroyer. the excitement was huge as Chinese military equipment were pretty outdated and they were catching up. But since mid 2010s, things just took off and exploded, things were coming out so quickly nothing surprised anyone anymore. like world first sixth gen fighters is not a surprise, the only interesting thing is they got two different models.

我大概2007、2008年开始研究中国军用装备，印象最深的第一个里程碑是歼10B原型机，搭载有源相控阵雷达与DSI进气道。

之后2011年歼20原型机亮相、运20大型运输机首飞、首艘052D驱逐舰下水，当时所有人都格外振奋，毕竟早年中国军备整体落后，追赶之路格外艰难。

但2010年中期之后，中国军工彻底进入爆发期，新装备层出不穷，大家慢慢也就见怪不怪了。哪怕全球率先推出两款不同构型的六代机，都不算让人意外的新闻。

 

Unclesam404
The breakout was project initiated 10-15 years ago with nation backed military institutes. Nothing you saw today is pure luck it’s sweat and money burned in rnd

如今的技术突破，源头是10到15年前由国家牵头、军工院所立项攻坚的长期项目。所有成果绝非运气，都是海量研发投入、科研人员日积月累打磨出来的。

 

kinwaisiu9414
For decades, Western media falsely claimed China was permanently stuck with aircraft engine technological backwardness. Today, China’s domestic turbofan engine lineup, including WS-15 Emei, WS-19 Huangshan, WS-20 Kunpeng, CJ-1000 commercial turbofan, CJ-2000 wide-body turbofan, CJ-3000 ultra-high-thrust turbofan, and China’s sixth-generation adaptive variable-cycle engine, has not only caught up with American and Russian propulsion technology but achieved selective overmatch across materials, thermodynamics, digital control, structural design, stealth optimisation and adaptive-cycle architecture. Russia has fallen permanently into second-tier status, while the United States no longer holds uncontested dominance in jet engine technology.

数十年来西方媒体一直造谣，宣称中国航空发动机会永远卡在落后水平。现在中国自研涡扇发动机体系已经完整成型：涡扇15峨眉、涡扇19黄山、涡扇20鲲鹏，商用长江1000、长江2000宽体大涵道发动机、长江3000超大推力航发，再加六代自适应变循环发动机。

整套体系不仅追上美俄航发水准，在材料、热力学、数字控制系统、结构设计、隐身适配、变循环架构多个细分领域还实现局部反超。俄罗斯航发彻底沦为第二梯队，美国也再也无法在航空发动机领域一家独大。

 

peternguyen9386
I work at aerospace engine manufacturing and our engines are exaggerated in reliability and quality. China has caught up and building spacecrafts for space warfare and satellite killers. Stop underestimating the Chinese as it only hurts us in long run.

我本人就在航空发动机制造行业从业，我们自家产品的可靠性、质量一直被外界过度吹捧。中国已经完成技术追赶，甚至在研发太空作战飞行器、反卫星武器。不要再低估中国了，长远来看只会让我们自己陷入被动。

 

bazej1080
Chinese pilots stated this new WS-15 engines are huge upgrade for the J-20, much stronger than previous Russian engines they used at the begng.
They say the higher altitude the bigger advantage in raw performance over Russian ones. And Chinese are already close to develop even newer engines.

中国飞行员反馈，全新涡扇15给歼20带来了质的飞跃，推力性能远优于早期搭载的俄制发动机。

尤其是高空工况下，相比俄发的性能优势会进一步拉大。而且中方距离下一代全新航发的定型也只差最后一步。

 

muhammadfikri-ni7kr
they've caught up long ago, the only thing that changes now is that the US bias is losing its footing

中国早就完成技术追赶了，当下唯一的变化，就是美国长久以来的偏见论调站不住脚了。

 

JvmCassandra
The Chinese learnt they cannot subordinate their jet engines programme to a particular aircraft. These two must be independent. Previously, Chinese leadership saw their jet engine programme delayed commissioning their aircraft so many programmes were cancelled. This is hugely detrimental.
They learnt one must keep the project going. They also absorbed many Ukrainian experts after the fall of the Soviet Union.
Military jet engines differ from commercial engines is that the cost margins didn’t matter that much. It is about national security and sovereignty. No price is too high.

中方总结出关键经验：航空发动机研发不能依附于某一款战机，两者必须分开独立立项。早年因为航发研发滞后拖累战机列装，多个军机项目被迫中止，损失惨重。
之后中方坚持航发专项长期投入，苏联解体后还吸纳了大批乌克兰航空领域专家。

军用航发和民用客机发动机逻辑不同，不用过度计较成本利润，核心关乎国家安全与战略主权，再多投入都值得。

 

lolwutyoumad
This is why any claims of Turkish or Indian jet engines have to be taken with a massive grain of salt. Jet engines are some of the hardest items to produce with the amount of industrial capacity, scientific infrastructure and the money to keep throwing at the project that will have endless teething issues needed just to squeeze out the performance that separates true domestic products from downgraded export models

所以土耳其、印度宣称自研航空发动机，大家都要大打折扣去看待。航发是全球工业难度天花板，需要完整工业体系、庞大科研底座，还要持续砸钱攻克无数试错难题，才能造出性能达标、区别于阉割出口版的纯国产型号。

 

patclark2186
The US F-35 is now being delivered without Radar.. and it will be years before the radars are ready.
My point is.. without Radar, China could put old J-79s ( jets from the 1960s) in and still win in a fight.

美国现在交付的F-35甚至直接拆掉雷达，雷达系统还要好几年才能彻底完善。

说白了，连雷达都残缺的F35，就算中国派出上世纪60年代的老旧歼7系列战机，空战都能占据上风。

 

shanerooney7288
China cannot build jet engines.
Because we still live in the 1990s shortly after the fall of the Soviet Union.

中国造不出航空发动机。

毕竟我们的认知还停留在苏联解体后的90年代。

 

fikripasisingi6630
Yep. Its better for the world to think China still lagging behind, with crap and cheap stuff.

没错，让全世界继续误以为中国技术落后、只会生产廉价低端产品，反倒对我们更有利。

 

Starstreak170
Do nothing, win.

无为而治，静待胜出。

 

barneyrubble4293
They did something though, they researched extensively until they could make it properly.

但中方实实在在沉下心做了大量基础研究，一步步打磨到可以稳定量产的水平。

 

村田让
It's difficult to say exactly when Chinese engines will catch up with world-class levels. However, the inability of the Ford-class's electromagnetic catapult to launch the F-35 suggests three possibilities:
1. The electromagnetic catapult did not meet design specifications.
2. The F-35's weight did not meet design specifications.
3. The F135 engine is not as powerful as touted.
Oh, or perhaps all three are true.

很难精准判定中国航发在哪一个时间点完全对标全球顶尖水准。不过美国福特级航母电磁弹射无法正常弹射F-35战机这件事，能折射出三个问题：

1. 电磁弹射器本身没有达到设计指标；
2. F-35整机重量超标，不符合原始设计；
3. F135发动机实际推力远没有宣传的那么强悍。

搞不好以上三点问题同时存在。

 

TheKkpop1
Every fighter jet needs ton of rare earth. Chinese have all the materials to construct j20, j35, j50 & j36.
US military regime is lining up at the mercy of Chinese supplies.

所有战机生产都离不开大量稀土资源。中国手握充足原材料，可以完整量产歼20、歼35、歼50、歼36等机型。

美军军工体系高度依赖中方稀土供应链，处处受制于人。

 

jiokl7g9t6
I'd believe the Chinese WS-15 figures over the US engine figures given that they've been proven to be lies.

美方公布的航发参数多次被证实注水造假，相比之下我更愿意采信涡扇15的官方性能数据。

 

TheKkpop1
Many western media still regards Chinese made engines are rubbish, the same comment to Chinese EV and ICE 5 years ago.

不少西方媒体依旧贬低国产航发粗制滥造，就和五年前他们全盘否定中国新能源汽车、燃油车技术的论调一模一样。

 

Iuhnauguw
The Chinese used Russian engines for carriers because carrier based aircraft had particular salt water corrosion resistance requirement and it wasn't worth develo a specialized engine for a relatively small number of carrier based flankers.

中国舰载机早期选用俄制发动机，纯粹是因为舰载环境要严苛对抗海水盐雾腐蚀，而侧卫系列舰载机列装数量有限，单独专门研发一款适配航发性价比不高。