Did Brahmins come from outside of India
Kiran KS, Love the nitty gritty details of India as a civilization.
Yes and No.
Brahmins are a small percentage of overall Indian population today. Maybe 5% or so as no one knows exact caste data, since no specific caste census was done across India in a long time.
But since you are specifically asking about Brahmins, there might be some caste angle to the question. Ignoring that, it would be prudent to use this opportunity to understand not just Brahmins, but how everyone else who is living in India today landed here.
No one can tell for sure when a group called “Brahmins” were recognized in India, but one can safely say that at least for 3000 years that name exists. Call it Varna (professional basis) or caste (birth basis), it has been around for 1000s of years. So are Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudra varnas.
But we have to roll back time much longer than 3000 years to understand human migrations. The most popular theory is the Out of Africa theory. That gives us a picture as below, clearly showing that humans came to Indian subcontinent across the coasts from west to south to east, at least 90,000 years ago.
Source from Wiki.
Then if you look more deeper into the geno project, you will find more elaborate migration path from central part of Africa, into various parts of the world long long time ago. We are talking about 3600 to 4000 generations ago!! That’s my grand father’s grand father’s grand father’s … nearly 2000th grand father or grand mother who migrated out of Africa to Indian subcontinent!
Then we have 1000s of years of inter mixing of genes across the giant Asian continent. People moved into India.. people moved out of India.. people came back to India… There are endless theories and researches going on. Add to it 100s of natural disasters where entire settlements got wiped out in environmental changes caused by river path change, ice ages, wars, diseases, volcano explosions, massive drought, tsunamis, heavy rains/flooding. The chances of survival for any gene group was minimal over the large time scale of 4000 generations we are talking about!
In fact, till about 1700 Common Era (CE), the human population growth was very low. People died in large numbers, much younger in their lives and that’s why it took nearly 11,750 years out of the past 12,000 years (last major ice age) for human population to reach the magical 1,000,000,000 mark. And then, it took less than 270 years to add another 5,500,000,000 humans to the planet! Before 12,000 years, the population overall was so minuscule, that we will need extremely supreme computing and evidence collection skills to even contemplate what kind of gene pool existed in which part of the world.
The reason I am giving all the above info is just to show that migrations happened all the time, but the survival rate of any group, including Brahmins that you specifically asked for, was very low historically.
There are countless theories of how and where people migrated into Indian subcontinent. There are also theories like OIT - Out of India Theory which shows that most of today’s Europe, West Asia, Central Asia and South Asia, speak the languages that originated in Indus Valley about 7000 years ago.
So you have Out of Africa, Aryan Invasion, Aryan Migration, Out of India and 100s of theories. What matter is.. where do you start your research? 100 years ago? 500 years ago? 1000 years ago? 2000 years ago? 3000 years ago? 5000 years ago? 10000 years ago? Much longer?
Based on that you will find “native” versus “outsider” theories building up. Mostly they are theoretical efforts.
The choice is yours. But whatever you do, please do not incite hatred in today’s India based on the migration theories, as no one can prove them convincingly considering the massive time scale we are talking about. The only thing you can prove categorically is the most recent migrations, at best going back 1500 to 2000 years. Anything longer needs immense research of all migrations in, within and out. Add to it mixing up of populations within the Indian subcontinent for 1000s of years, making it very difficult to come to any conclusion.
That’s why I started my answer with “Yes and No”. And the same thing would apply to EVERY major caste group in India!
The genetic study proves that the paternal DNA (father side) inherited itself from West Eurasian haplotypes or West European groups and exhibited strong characteristics pertaining to Europeans. This is the reason why “majority” of them have fair skinned complexion.
The frequency of these haplotypes is proportional to caste rank, the highest frequency of West Eurasian haplotypes being found in the upper castes in India.
These european men are invaders who invaded countries thousands of years ago to infiltrate the indigeneous populations by reproducing with the native women who lived in this land which is why the genetic study proves that the maternally inherited mitochonodrial DNA in each caste is most similar to Asians.
They also established their “Self-Proclaimed” hindu 'brahminic' religion, caste system and higher ranks to exploit and oppress the native people and plunder their resources to gain power and authority. This could be the reason why there are no historical records for the existence of Brahminism before the Gupta empire since this empire might’ve nourished the Brahmins.
“Varnas” are a Vicious/Deceptive system of hierarchy orchestrated by Brahmins to racially discriminate the people into classes to maintain Power and authority to access/exploit resources from the native people many centuries ago when there was zero awareness. This contributed to the reason why the brahmins(fair skinned) considering themselves close to gods were sitting around in temples as priests maintaining wealth. And the Lower caste (dark skinned natives) were not allowed inside the temples as they feared loss of authority or power to them.
Brahmins predominantly occupying powerful positions (or white collar jobs) in Judiciary , Finance (banks) or Govt. offices in India could be due to the years of oppression this community was encouraging and also hunger for power (exhibited on their DNA). It is also evident from the research studies that they never wanted the indigeneous population to grow or develop.
Ajay Kumar, Indian traveller
In ancient times, there were various category & type of priests, including black magicians.
The class of priest who mastered the 2nd part of Veda - Brahmana, which is the code of rituals & mantra for each deity, were known as Brahman Priests. Slowly the Brahman purohit (priest) got shortened to just Brahman.
There is hardly any mention of Brahman, as a caste, in pre-Gupta era.
The word Brahman, to indicate the caste of Ravana etc, is a later addition, in Gupta period.
So, Brahman means, an expert (pundit) in Brahmana rituals.
There DNA already shows the proof of them being the invaders.
American Scientist Proves Brahmins are Foreigners
There was no mention of Brahamans before the Gupta period simply indicates that they were not present before Gupta Era.
None of the Vedic texts indicates that Brahamans existed. They invaded the country after Vedas were written.
The mentioning of Brahamans can only be seen first in the Manusmriti (Manu-Human & Smriti-rules). Manusmriti simply means the rules for Humans. Manusmriti one of the 16 books written and is a pro Brahamanic textbook which mentions the Brahaman being superior to all the other humans. It mentions Brahamans take birth to teach and rule. The whole book is filled towards strengthening Brahamans and weakening the non-brahamans. The book first introduced caste based discrimination in the Indian Society. It made Vishnu to be the supreme deity which was never the truth. Rig Veda always considered Vishnu as a small deity. The book introduced untouchability and discrimination in the society. It also justified raping and killing of non-brahamans a valid thing which is so not acceptable.
How could someone neglect the fact that every Human Being share a common origin. The book was nothing but a bunch of narrow thoughts introduced by the invaders (brahamans) to divide the society and rule.
Sanatan Dharma was a world religion which used to worship nature and considered fire, water, land to be the supreme gods.
Basicallly, Brahamans were the invaders like the mughals and the britishers. They don’t share anything with the native Indians.
If they come from outside India, what is the logic for it? Where from they come?
If Sanskrit was their language, show me many river names, place names etc in Sanskrit from that origin
For example you can point many river name in Russia based on Sanskrit
So it tells that some brahmins would have lived long back
My understanding is that India was so big which includes present day Russia and much more and ruled by king Barath.
Ramaswamy Subramanian, studied at University of Delhi
Religions too have some say in this. Other than the religion, Hinduism, and other religions like Buddhism, Jainism etc. are of Indian Origin. The caste differences too, are of Hindu, and Indian origin. We have not heard of Brahmin origin in any other country. But geographical borders where changed from time to time. At this point of time I do not know, whether it is necessary to investigate, the origin of one caste or the other. Yesterday I saw a question on the origin of Cow. Among the four divisions of Hindu caste, the business community, and ruling community, do have chances of international relations. Other communities related to religious services and and engaged in manual labour appear to be of only of hindu, and Indian origin
Govind Sharma, Chief Executive- Corp. Accounts at RPG Enterprises (2000-present)
If you want to bring down a civilization then best way is to eliminate the Intelligentsia and guiding forces of the society. If you are unable to eliminate them create up rise against the guiding forces.
They declared Brahmins were the Aryans others were non aryans. Aryans came from Europe where as Others were pushed to south namely Dravidians.
Thus all these confusion were created by Britishers to divide and misguide the society.
Aryan race originated in India and most of Indian people in India are from Aryan race as written in Vedas
Sandeep Bhalla (सन्दीप भल्ला), BA, LLB Attorneys, Law
There are no foreigners in India. Aryan invasion theory is long dead. Maxmueller who propounded also admitted it baseless before he died.
There are enough evidence to show it wrong.
1.Discovery of harrapan type civilisation in all over India pre dating IVC.
2.Genetic study has shown that irrespective of caste dna of all people is same
Vikram Kulkarni, knows English
No . They belong to this land only.
Ravikumar Kulkarni, Lecturer
They did not come from outside. But slowly they are going outside of India for sure
Ashwani Kumar Sharma
First of all you do not know who are brahmins. you are differentiated between people just between countries in the world.
Yes, and it's proven by biological evidences like Michal bamshad report in 2001
Vijay Bhardwaj, studied at Savitribai Phule Pune University
This is a great bullshit spreaded by Britishers.
Brahmin is a varna, not any religion / continental identity.
Sunil Sharma, worked at PTT Exploration and Production Public Company Limited (2014-2017)
Not only Brahmins but even the humans were imported from Mars
Salam, former developer
Yes, only the south Indians are the true inhabitant of India
Divyanshu Pandey, Btech Civil Services Exam of India & Banking, Mechanical Engineering (2014)
Yes they came from Mars and jupiter.
This kinds of questions were implanted by britishers to divide the society. They ruled INDIA by making division among peoples.
One should not pay attention to this stupid questions.
Gilson Dcruz, MBA Finance & Economics, E Cell , St. Josephs College of Business Administration (1992)
Only Dravidians are the real Indians, rest of them are outsiders.
Greeshma Parvathi, studied at St. Arnold's Central School, Mysore
As per my knowledge they came from Eurasia and made native Indians untouchable
Chaitanya Kamat (चैतन्य कामत), loves science, history and religion
Did Brahmins come from Eurasia?
Of course. Brahmins are not real Indians. They came from Africa. Just like every-frickin-one else. Humans came out of Africa and made their way into Europe and Asia, including India lakhs of years ago.
That's not the answer you're looking for is it?
Here's the one you want to hear:
Brahmins came from Iran. Iran is in Europe so that makes brahmins European. That's why they are all so fair. They invaded a very technologically advanced Dalit civilisation of India. Then brahmins defeated them and made them untouchables. Brahmin leader Waman killed Dalit King Mahabali in 100 BC.
Here's the truth about some brahmin history:
The Greeks (Macedonians) entered India in around 300 BC. At that time, they mention seeing brahmins in India.
The founder of Persia's ancient religion Zoraster could not convert anyone in his country so he went to the king of Afghanistan. This man had studied at the Nalanda University. His teachers were the "brahmins of India." Depending on when you think Zoroaster existed, this event can be traced back to up to 6000 BC. Sounds far fetched?
Ancient Iranians followed a religion called Zoroastrianism. They were defeated by Alexander the Great. When Alexander entered India, his army was scared of the Nanda Empire's army. The Nanda King was born to a woman who was belonged to a brahmin family and who worked as a hairdresser (shudra). This is why he was ridiculed by his subjects.
Chanakya, the teacher of Chandragupta Maurya was a brahmin. Chandragupta Maurya lived much before 100 BC.
So yes. Brahmins aren't "real" Indians. They came from Jerusalem. Let's pack them off to where they belong.