中国的歼20隐形战斗机是否算得上美国 F35 的对手

Is China’s J-20 stealth fighter a rival to the US F-35?

中国的歼20隐形战斗机是否算得上美国 F-35 的对手？

以下是Quora读者的评论：

Robert Mullan
The only honest answer is that no one knows. The Chinese planes are mostly untested.
Fans of the Chinese planes spout about their superiour engines and thrust vectoring. But last i heard they were still buying engines from Russia because they couldnt get them to work.
There is a lot that goes into making a superior Fighter/ Attack aircraft. Its very possible to make a plane that is supperior in almosy every way and it be a failure because it is so maintenance heavy it’s not practical.
Also the J-20 claims to have incredible stealth capabilities. Yet it does not pass the eye test of the US experts who say its shoddy workmanship and design does not allow for those stats.
For the near future im going to swear by the battle tested F-35. I find iy much more likely that the Chinese are still 1 generation behind. But their next jump is right around the corner. They dont make the same mistake twice. It take practical knowledge, and thwy are gaining that.

唯一的答案是，没人能说清。中国的战机大多没经过实战验证。

中国战机的支持者总吹嘘他们有更先进的发动机和推力矢量技术，但我上次听说，他们还在从俄罗斯购买发动机——因为自家研发的发动机根本用不了。

打造一款先进的歼击机/攻击机，要涉及的环节太多了。完全有可能造出一款各方面性能都更出色的战机，最终却沦为失败品——只因它的维护成本极高，根本不实用。

而且歼-20虽说具备超强隐身能力，却连美国专家的直观评估都没通过。这些专家表示，歼-20工艺粗糙、设计存在缺陷，根本达不到宣传的那些隐身效果。

短期内，我还是信任经过实战检验的F-35。我认为中国很可能仍落后一代，但他们的下一次技术飞跃已近在眼前。他们不会在同一个错误上栽两次跟头，实战经验虽需积累，但他们正在逐步掌握。

Dan T.
Kind of, but not really. In the sense that the J-20 is a 5th Generation fighter from a country that is an aspiring to rival the military dominance of the United States, yes the J-20 is a “rival” of the F-35. But in terms of aircraft design and intended mission, no, it's not really a rival of the F-35.
The F-35 is a multirole fighter, it can fight air to air, it can hit ground targets, it can do close air support, maritime strike, etc. The current iteration of the J-20 is more of a long range interceptor. It has a limited ability to perform some other missions, but it's main mission seems to be flying very fast, long distances, while staying hidden, in order to take out high value aerial targets like command and control aircraft or aerial refueling tankers.
It's not really a rival to any US aircraft, because the US hasn't built dedicated interceptors for quite awhile. The US aircraft with the most similar mission profile is probably the F-22. The F-22 is more of an air superiority fighter though.
Now, that may change in the future, as the J-20 has been undergoing upgrades over time. It's initial Russian engines have been replaced with new Chinese-developed engines, and it appears in the near future it's engines will be upgraded once again, giving it new capabilities like the ability to fly supersonic without using afterburner or “supercruise”. This will bring it even with the F-22 in that respect.
It also appears to have been fitted with thrust vectoring nozzles on its engines fairly recently, giving it true super-manuverability, which also brings it on par with the F-22. However, it still doesn't appear to have the same level of stealth and especially all-aspect stealth that the F-22 and F-35 have.

算，也不算。从“歼-20是来自一个渴望挑战美国军事主导地位的国家的第五代战机”这个角度来说，歼-20算是F-35的“对手”。但从战机设计和既定任务来看，它算不上是F-35的真正对手。

F-35是多用途战机，能进行空对空作战、打击地面目标、提供近距离空中支援、执行海上打击任务等。目前的歼-20更偏向远程截击机，虽能执行少量其他任务，但主要任务似乎是高速远程飞行且保持隐蔽，以摧毁预警机、空中加油机等高空高价值目标。

它算不上是任何美国战机的对手，因为美国已经很久没造过专用截击机了。任务定位最接近歼-20的美国战机可能是F-22，但F-22更偏向空中优势战机。

不过未来情况可能会变，因为歼-20一直在持续升级。它最初使用的俄罗斯发动机已更换为中国自主研发的新型发动机，而且短期内似乎还会再次升级发动机——届时它将具备新能力，比如无需开启加力就能实现超音速飞行（即“超巡”），这一点将能赶上F-22。

近期歼-20的发动机似乎还加装了推力矢量喷管，具备了真正的超机动能力，这一点也能与F-22持平。但它的隐身性能，尤其是全向隐身性能，似乎仍不及F-22和F-35。

Independent studies indicate that it is less stealthy than the F-22 and F-35, and that it's stealth is heavily optimized from the frontal aspect, with much larger radar returns from the sides and rear. So unless it's all-aspect stealth gets an upgrade, it may remain more of an interceptor, albeit one that is more capable than it used to be in a dogfight.
It will still have a disadvantage against the F-22 and F-35 though, unless it's stealth gets a large overall upgrade. So, overall, no the J-20 is not really a rival of the F-35, but in terms of sheer physical capabilities, the J-20 may soon rival the F-22 in some respects.
However, the largest issue the J-20 will likely still have aside from stealth, when compared to US aircraft, will likely remain its avionics. Comparisons of Chinese export radars to US radars show that China is very far behind the US when it comes to avionics.
Even if we assume Chinese domestic radars are significantly better, even twice as good, than the ones they have on the export market, they are still behind the US. They can build radars with the same number of T/R modules and transmission power as the US, but the electronics and software behind the transmitter still appear to lag significantly behind the US.
This gives the J-20 a major disadvantage against the F-22 or F-35. The inferior avionics of the J-20, in combination with the inferior stealth of the J-20 mean US stealth aircraft will be able to locate and track the J-20 well before it can locate and track the US aircraft in return.
In modern air combat, first look usually also means first lock, first shot and first kill. The J-20 is still being upgraded though, so while it may not truly rival US stealth aircraft yet, it may at some point on the future. Though that is a moving target of course, as US aircraft are also being continuously upgraded.

独立研究显示，歼-20的隐身性比F-22和F-35差，而且它的隐身设计主要优化了正面，侧面和尾部的雷达反射信号要大得多。所以除非全向隐身性能得到升级，否则它可能仍以截击机定位为主，即便近距离格斗能力比以前强了。

不过除非整体隐身性能大幅提升，否则面对F-22和F-35时，它仍会处于劣势。因此总体而言，歼-20算不上是F-35的对手，但单从硬件性能来看，它在某些方面可能很快就能赶上F-22。

然而，除了隐身性能，与美国战机相比，歼-20可能仍存在一个重大短板——航电系统。将中国出口的雷达与美国雷达对比可知，中国在航电领域与美国差距很大。

即便假设中国国内使用的雷达比出口版好得多，甚至是两倍好，仍落后于美国。他们能造出与美国雷达T/R模块数量、发射功率相同的雷达，但发射机背后的电子元件和软件，似乎仍大幅落后于美国。

这使得歼-20面对F-22或F-35时处于明显劣势。歼-20航电和隐身性能均落后，意味着美国隐身战机能够先于歼-20发现并追踪它，而歼-20却无法及时发现美国战机。

在现代空战中，“先发现”通常意味着“先锁定、先开火、先击落”。不过歼-20仍在升级中，所以虽然目前还无法真正与美国隐身战机抗衡，但未来某一天或许能做到。当然，这是一个动态过程——美国战机也在持续升级。

Michael X
What is the most powerful capability for any military in history? The power to disengage, period. The horses grew up on the grassland were faster with better endurance, not by much, just a little bit. The Mongol abused it to the fullest. They could ran away when they were at disadvantage. And they was nothing the opponents could do to punish them.
Coming back to the J-20. The J-20 could safely park in locations outside the F-35 combat radius, but close enough making the location of F-35 with the combat radius of J-20. For every J-20, at least two F-35 had to be sent. Because, if one F-35 run out of fuel or ammunition, it can't disengage.
The F-35 better have superior numbers in every location, because it can't run away, when situation doesn't favor them. While the J-20 could just open its afterburners and disengage in any situation. People on the internet are just scared to admit the truth. Just watch whether the US design its next gen like this airport defender again.
I forgot, the J20 has larger internal weapons bay, which led to better missile range.

历史上任何军队最强大的能力是什么？是撤离能力，仅此而已。草原上长大的马跑得更快、耐力更好，优势不算大，就一点点。但蒙古人把这个优势用到了极致——处于劣势时能撤退，对手却没办法追击报复。

回到歼-20的话题。歼-20能安全停在F-35的作战半径之外，但这个位置又足够近，能让F-35处于歼-20的作战半径内。每部署一架歼-20，美方至少要派两架F-35应对。因为一旦有一架F-35燃油或弹药耗尽，就无法撤离。

F-35在每个部署点都最好保持数量优势，因为情况不利时，它撤不了。而歼-20不管什么情况，只要开加力就能撤离。网友们只是不敢承认这个事实，等着看美国下一代战机还会不会设计成这种“机场守卫者”吧。

忘了说，歼-20的内置弹舱更大，这让它能搭载射程更远的导弹。

Michael X
The concept behind them are every different. Let me talk about the logic behind the F-35 first. The US military was obsessed with technical and numerical advantage over their opponents. Engaging a peer competitor and gambling on the result was never part of their plan.
Therefore, their plan was using the F-35 taking down all the 4th gen fighters and then use their numerical advantage against a few 5th gen left. The logic behind the F-35 program was they could produce a lot of them relatively cheap and fast, and that goal was achieved mostly.
How do you even take down a 5th gen? What are their weaknesses? All the 5th gen are very stealth in the front, not so much in other angles. If a 5th gen suddenly found enemy fighter jets approaching in its 6 oclock position, it's over.
In order to checkmate the F-35, it will have to out maneuver it in a much larger radius(bvr), which is going to require much higher speed and range. Taking that concept, you get the J-20.
For the 6th gen, every player is going to emphasize the important of much larger combat radius, higher speed, all angle stealth, larger internal weapons bay, and more computing power. Canards are bad for stealth, but not when they are on the American fighter jet.
PS: Stop commenting the network centric warfare, the PLAAF took it more seriously than the Americans who invented it.

两者的设计理念完全不同。先说说F-35的设计逻辑：美军一心追求对对手的技术和数量优势，与实力相当的对手交战、赌胜负，从来不在他们的计划里。

所以他们的计划是，用F-35摧毁所有四代机，再靠数量优势应对剩下的少量五代机。F-35项目的核心逻辑是“能相对低成本、快速量产”，这个目标基本实现了。

那该怎么对付五代机？五代机的弱点在哪？所有五代机的正面隐身性都很好，但其他角度就不行了。如果一架五代机突然发现敌机从6点钟方向（正后方）逼近，那就完了。

要压制F-35，就得在更远的距离（超视距）上占据机动优势，这就需要更快的速度和更大的航程。基于这个理念，歼-20应运而生。

到了六代机时代，所有参与方都会强调更大的作战半径、更快的速度、全向隐身、更大的内置弹舱和更强的算力。鸭翼对隐身不利——但美国战机装鸭翼就没人这么说了。

补充：别再提网络中心战了，中国空军比发明这个概念的美国更重视它。

Qi Chen
Question: Is China’s J-20 stealth fighter a rival to the US F-35?
Answer: No.
One of them is a super-maneuverable (owning to its 8 moveable aerodynamic interface) fifth generation air superiority aircraft with lift ratio of 2.2, Mach 2.2 speed with Mach 1.8 super cruising speed owning to its monstrous engine with 10.89 thrust to weight ratio. Top of the line radar along with its 450km range AA missile and best sensor, information coordination capacity on the planet.
The other one is F35.

问题：中国的歼-20隐形战斗机是美国F-35的对手吗？答案：不是。

其中一款是具备超机动性的第五代空中优势战机——它有8个可动气动面，升阻比2.2，速度2.2马赫，超巡速度1.8马赫（得益于推重比10.89的强劲发动机），配备顶级雷达、450公里射程的空空导弹，还有全球最先进的传感和信息协同能力。另一款是F-35。

Kurt Black
You Americans just deceive those allies who bought your planes, don’t deceive yourself.
Yes, the F35 does not pursue the ultimate flight speed, nor the ultimate performance, but all-around. The result became a four-dimensional image.
The maxmum flight speed of the F35 is only Mach 1.6. OK.
The new J35 supersonic cruise has Mach 2.3.
And the F35 is now difficult to continue production because China has restricted the export of key raw materials.
Is the F35 really considered a fifth-generation aircraft? It's not even as good as the F22 from over forty years ago.
The F22, a fifth-generation aircraft, is a fifth-generation old aircraft with a maxmum speed of Mach 2.25, a normal supersonic cruise of less than Mach 2, a maxmum range of only more than 2,000 kilometers, and a maxmum combat radius of 800.
The J20's normal supersonic cruising speed exceeds Mach 2.5, and its maxmum speed is Mach 2.8. Now there is also a two-seater J20S.
Oh, I forgot. Now the United States cannot produce F22. Because the production line is gone.

你们美国人就骗骗那些买了你们飞机的盟友吧，别自欺欺人了。

没错，F-35不追求极限速度，也不追求极限性能，走的是全能路线，结果却成了“四不像”。

F-35的最大飞行速度才1.6马赫，就这样。

而中国新的歼-35，超巡速度能到2.3马赫。

而且现在F-35很难继续量产了，因为中国限制了关键原材料的出口。

F-35真能算五代机吗？连四十多年前的F-22都比不上。

作为五代机的F-22，如今已是“老五代机”——最大速度2.25马赫，常规超巡速度不到2马赫，最大航程才2000多公里，最大作战半径800公里。

歼-20的常规超巡速度超过2.5马赫，最大速度2.8马赫，现在还有双座版歼-20S。

哦对了，忘了说，美国现在造不了F-22了，因为生产线早就没了。

Bill Chen
The f-35 will NOT be able to establish air superiority against the j-20.
The f-35 is not a “I can hit you where you can't hit back” platform against the j-20.
The j-20, in tandem with ground and air assets providing EW and sensor network coverage, is a formidable proposition to penetrate and challenge, let alone destroy.
But of course, the Anglophone will not believe the status quo until the shooting concludes.
I will end here.

F-35无法对歼-20建立空中优势。

面对歼-20，F-35算不上是“能打到你，而你打不到我”的平台。

歼-20在提供电子战和传感网络支援的地面、空中装备配合下，要突破它、挑战它都极具难度，更别说摧毁它了。

当然，英语国家的人不到真刀真枪开战，是不会相信现状的。

我就说这么多。

Richard Mc
By the very best estimates for the J-20, it is still a clear second to the F-35 but much better than the Su-57 in terms of stealth. Other estimates indicate a much larger gap.
In situational awareness, the F-35 is vastly superior to the J-20. The J-20 has longer range missiles, but they are less reliable, and there is zero chance of getting a lock on an F-35 far enough out for range to make a difference.
In a combat situation the F-35 is likely to be able to fire first.

即便对歼-20做最乐观的评估，它在隐身性能上仍明显落后于F-35，但比苏-57强得多。其他评估则显示两者差距更大。

在态势感知方面，F-35远超歼-20。歼-20的导弹射程更远，但可靠性更低，而且根本没机会在“射程优势能发挥作用”的足够远距离上锁定F-35。

在实战中，F-35很可能会先开火。

Shane Robinson
To bring it down to basics, the J-20 is designed as an interceptor, it’s primary role is to push through any air defence network and attack the “force multipliers” of the enemy, AEWAC and Tankers.
The F-22 is an air superiority fighter, it’s role is to engage enemy combat aircraft and kill them, protecting other assets.
The F-35 is a multi role aircraft, a “fighter bomber” in old terms. It’s role is to enter enemy airspace, attack enemy air defences (on day 1) and other assets while being able to defend itself from enemy aircraft.

简单来说，歼-20的设计定位是截击机，主要任务是突破敌方防空网络，打击预警机、加油机等“战力倍增器”。

F-22是空中优势战机，任务是与敌方战机交战并摧毁它们，保护己方其他装备。

F-35是多用途战机，按老说法就是“战斗轰炸机”，任务是突入敌方领空，在作战首日打击敌方防空系统和其他目标，同时具备自卫能力以应对敌方战机。