印尼发现明代的文物，印证了丝绸之路时代中国商人与井里汶苏丹国之间的贸易往来

Ming Dynasty relics found in Indonesia trace Silk Road ties

印尼发现明代文物追溯丝绸之路联系

Porcelain plates and other artifacts from China's Ming Dynasty(1368-1644AD) have been discovered in Cirebon, Indonesia. As Roberlin Purba reports, these findings are evidence of ancient trade between Chinese merchants and the Cirebon Sultanate during the Silk Road era.

在印度尼西亚井里汶，人们发现了来自中国明朝（公元1368-1644年）的瓷盘及其他手工艺品。据罗伯林·普尔巴报道，这些发现印证了丝绸之路时代中国商人与井里汶苏丹国之间的贸易往来。

以下是各国网友的评论：

ninakhan3803
The Chinese sailed far and wide to trade, not to colonise.

中国人远航是为了贸易，不是为了殖民。

joll1e
Right, there is still like that in modern days

对，现代社会仍然是这样。

awancah7309
nope not chinese, but nusantara people they sail from chines to india to arab. that why kingdom in nusantara pay tribut for access city in china (for trade). same as silk road not by chinnes but by central asian people.

不，不是中国人，而是努桑塔拉人在航行，他们从中国到印度再到阿拉伯。努桑塔拉的王国为了进入中国城市进行贸易而进贡。就像丝绸之路不是由中国人开辟的，而是由中亚人开辟的一样。

agusjoharudin
Chinese colonized but not conquered. They came and stayed.

中国人是殖民，不是征服。他们来了就留下了。

ninakhan3803
'Colonising a place' and 'Settling in a place' is not the same. Don't confuse the two words.

“殖民一个地方”和“在一个地方定居”不一样，别把这两个词弄混了。

AR-bh3mn
I hate Western Colonialism

我讨厌西方殖民主义。

imranzakaev3191
On Global Politics*: "The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence." Huntington's statement underscores the role of military power in sha global politics and the influence of Western civilizations .

关于全球政治：“西方赢得世界不是因为其思想、价值观或宗教的优越性，而是因为其在运用有组织暴力方面的优越性。”亨廷顿的这句话强调了军事力量在塑造全球政治和西方文明影响力中的作用。

YaBegitulah1
And in Indonesia we have food that comes from China and modifies that food, china and Indonesia have a long history, from trade, culture, marriage, food, the chinese don't like to colonize, they prefer friendship and family.

在印度尼西亚，我们能吃上中国菜，还对其进行了改良。中国和印度尼西亚有着悠久的历史，从贸易、文化、婚姻到饮食都有渊源。中国人不喜欢殖民，他们更看重友谊和亲情。

therminust4
also Ming dynasty style Bowl with chicken painting (Mangkok Ayam) currently still mass product and used by most street food in Indonesia

还有明代风格的绘鸡碗（Mangkok Ayam），现在仍然是批量生产的产品，印尼大多数街头小吃都会用。

haniahannslew4108
Yes chicken painting on bowls were truly popular Chinese style in Ming dynasty

没错，碗上画鸡确实是明代很流行的中国风格。

rizkyadiyanto7922
saw it in cambodia too on some youtube vlogger.

在柬埔寨的一些油管博主那里也看到过这种碗。

innaminute523
Chicken or rooster?

是母鸡还是公鸡？

adiananggaito
Mangkok mie ayam wkkw.that mie ayam chicken noodle bowl bro

是鸡肉面碗啦，哈哈。就是装鸡肉面的碗，兄弟。

land980
What a gorgeous country! May Allah bless them richly

多美的国家啊！愿真主丰厚地赐福于它。

JWscandi
chinese history revealed the common practice of the royal families been married away for the sake of maintaining peace relation and avoiding wars....not easy to b part of the royal families. Respect!

中国历史上，王室为了维持和平关系、避免战争而远嫁联姻是常事。做王室成员不容易啊。致敬！

musamusa990
And they didn't speak each other languages. How they communicate then ?

他们语言不通，那当时怎么交流呢？

JWscandi
@musamusa990 of course learn and assimilate

当然是通过学习和融合啦。

OtenBenaluIndonesia
Omong kosong bagaimana dengan Mongol yang dulu meminta upeti?

空谈！那以前蒙古人要求进贡怎么说？

JWscandi
@OtenBenaluIndonesia which great ancient nation did not expect tributes? even regional powers like in south east asian also did. wasn't this a much better solution to wars? on top of having the royal family members married away as in Chinese royal families? even modern hegemon till now still demanded "tributes" albeit in different form...and which country is unHAPPY to oblige? instead those who paid the tributes now to the hegemon expressed gratitude.

哪个古代大国不期待进贡呢？就连东南亚的地区强国也这么做。这不是比战争好得多的解决办法吗？更何况还有像中国王室那样嫁联姻的情况呢？甚至现代霸权国家至今仍在以不同形式索要“贡品”。哪有国家不愿意顺从呢？反而现在向霸权纳贡的国家还表示感激呢。

virgianna8883
Wow i don't know that.. Good

哇，我之前都不知道这个，真好。

bryan.the.scammer
Kmrn2 jg byk ditemukan koin2 cina kuno di tengah2 jawa. Menandakan hubungan yg sudah sgt lama.

最近在爪哇岛中部也发现了很多中国古钱币，这说明两国关系已经非常久远了。

rizkyadiyanto7922
koin cina jaman dulu kyk dolar amerika jaman sekarang.

以前的中国钱币就像现在的美元一样通用。

OtenBenaluIndonesia
Teman kepala bapak mu. Mereka dulu yang menyerang Jawa minta upeti untungnya mereka kalah

去问你父亲的头儿吧。他们以前进攻爪哇岛索要贡品，好在他们失败了。

yapsiauwsoengie6507
The story is unreliable
The Ming Emperor's surname isn't ONG (王) for sure.

这个故事不可信，明朝皇帝的姓氏肯定不是“王（ONG）”。

skyw4278
I heard that China stopped sailing during that time period. When did the Chinese start sailing again?

我听说中国在那个时期停止了航海活动，那中国人是什么时候再次开始航海的呢？

hariantong5878
Sure, what Ming Royalty is Ong(hokkian)/Wang(mandarin)??, the Royal Family of Ming surname is "ZHU", from ancient times there is common practice to use women from commoners or at least the officials to be bethroted to foreign lords or kings for diplomatic purposes, the number of candidates will be selected to be 'princesize' for this matter, why conducted like this if someone ask? chinese empires regard itself as a higher culture and greater power than the outside realm of the middle kingdom which is considered barbaric so never seen as equal, simple politics in that period is why should i be given the precious royal member to insignificant barbaric kingdoms for political marriage if i could dressed someone as princesses and the result will be the same.

当然了，明朝王室怎么会姓“王（闽南语ONG/普通话Wang）”呢？明朝皇室姓“朱”。古代常有这种做法，为了外交目的，会从平民或至少是官员家庭中挑选女子许配给外国领主或国王，这些候选人会被册封为“公主”。有人会问，为什么要这么做？因为中华帝国自视为文化更高、国力更强的国家，认为中原以外的地区都是蛮夷之地，从不将其视为平等的存在。那个时期的政治逻辑很简单：如果我能把一个人打扮成公主，达到的效果是一样的，那为什么要把珍贵的王室成员嫁给微不足道的蛮夷王国进行政治联姻呢？

santoyu7547
Don't expect that the king qill send their daughter to smaller kingdom, it is carefully choosen from the commoners to tighten their relation

别指望国王会把自己的女儿送到小王国去，联姻的女子都是从平民中精心挑选出来的，为的是巩固关系。

ianaZeinF
Lee Ong Tien. Ong Tien is her name and her surname is Lee. But maybe she was official daughter that been named as Princess to send far away for political marriage. I read its common practice that time because the emperor wouldnt want to send his own daughters far away and never came back

李蒂安（Lee Ong Tien），“蒂安”是她的名字，“李”是她的姓。但也许她是官员之女，被封为公主远嫁进行政治联姻。我看过资料，当时这种做法很常见，因为皇帝不想把自己的女儿送到远方，再也回不来。

yapsiauwsoengie6507
@rianaZeinF he said her name is Ong Tien Nio
Also Ong is not a common name for women

他说她的名字是“王蒂安·尼奥（Ong Tien Nio）”，而且“王（Ong）”也不是女性常用的名字。

HeryanaPernata
Itu dongeng bercampur dengan tradisi lisan di Indonesia pun tidak diambil sebagai sumber sejarah yang otentik..bisa saja penguasa Cirebon hanya menikah dengan saudagar pedagang besar..atau penguasa lokal China selatan..sang pangeran tak pernah sampai keistana kaisar di Beiing.

这是掺杂了印尼口头传统的民间故事，不能当作权威的历史来源。很可能井里汶的统治者只是和大商人通婚，或者和中国南方的地方统治者通婚，那位王子根本没去过北京的皇宫。

csking6377
@santoyu7547 It was common practice. During Ming Dynasty time, the power in Indonesia would be the Majapahit empire. That was a major empire, not small at all. A Ming princess (Hang Li Po) was also sent to marry the Malacca sultan, a very much smaller kingdom. Actually, the Ming emperor could have just conquered the Malacca sultanate, and controlled the Malacca straits if they had wanted to. The Malacca sultanate was still young and still relatively weak; hence sought protection from the Ming emperor .

这是常见的做法。明朝时期，印尼的强国是满者伯夷帝国，那是一个大帝国，一点都不小。还有一位明朝公主（汉丽宝）被送去嫁给马六甲苏丹，而马六甲是一个小得多的王国。实际上，明朝皇帝如果想的话，本可以直接征服马六甲苏丹国，控制马六甲海峡。当时马六甲苏丹国刚建立不久，还比较弱小，所以才向明朝皇帝寻求保护。

yapsiauwsoengie6507
@csking6377 Direct descendants of the Ming emperors had to have Zhu (朱) as their surname.

明朝皇帝的直系后裔必须姓“朱”。

musamusa990
Make sense. But I still curious how they communicate. Back then Cirebon for sure speaking Cirebon and that Chinnese people speaking Chinnese dialects. Putunghuo just recently implemented after WW2.

有道理，但我还是好奇他们怎么交流。当时井里汶人肯定说井里汶语，中国人说汉语方言，普通话是二战后才普及的。

andisuharto9990
@musamusa990 bagaimana cara mereka berdagang. Orang Cirebon menggunakan bahasa Cirebon dan orang China menggunakan bahasa China??? Pekerjakan penerjemah itu.

他们怎么进行贸易呢？井里汶人说井里汶语，中国人说汉语？靠翻译官啊。

andisuharto9990
@yapsiauwsoengie6507 kaisar China terkenal memiliki banyak istri dan banyak anak. Jika putrinya tidak di nikahkan dengan raja, akan di nikahkan dengan siapa putri raja itu??? Apakah akan di nikahkan dengan prajurit?

中国皇帝出了名的妻妾多、子女多。如果他的女儿不嫁给国王，那公主还能嫁给谁呢？嫁给士兵吗？

zeroseven-v9t
That's so correct information, I visited this place back in 1996

我1996年去过这个地方。

andisuharto9990
Itu hadiah pernikahan dari putri lee ong tien untuk sunan gunung jati.

那是李王蒂安公主送给苏南·古农·贾蒂的结婚礼物。

freemasonry666
In Indonesia, Mulyono dynasty more powerful than Ming

在印度尼西亚，穆利约诺王朝比明朝更强大。

khanhhung8959
i want to know those ceramic are origin or not? 600 years ago has such nice ceramics

我想知道那些陶瓷是不是原产的？600年前就有这么好的陶瓷了？

ahrufanghalba9669
Yeah, too shiny. However, maybe those comes from later renovations.

是啊，太有光泽了。不过，也许是后来翻新的。

judasthepious1499
we go way waaay back.
but westerners don't like that.

我们的渊源很久远了，可西方人不喜欢这样。

flyingblindman
The rise of China has historically been accompanied by the parallel rise of SEA nations, a pattern that dates back centuries, long before Western colonization introduced divisions, racial hierarchies, foreign frameworks of governance, etc. Trade between these regions has flourished for centuries, establishing networks of mutual benefit. This is a reality that contemporary so-called 'modern' societies often overlook or refuse to acknowledge, largely due to the deep-rooted divisions that were historically imposed to serve the interests of Western colonial powers.
Yet, in this comment section, some people often try to understand how ancient people thought by using 'modern' (and diluted) ways of thinking. Hmmm.

历史上，中国的崛起一直伴随着东南亚国家的共同发展，这种模式可以追溯到几个世纪前，远早于西方殖民主义带来的分裂、种族等级制度、外来治理框架等。这些地区之间的贸易繁荣了几个世纪，建立了互惠网络。这是当代所谓的“现代”社会常常忽视或拒绝承认的现实，很大程度上是因为历史上为了西方殖民列强的利益而强加的根深蒂固的分裂。然而，在这个评论区里，有些人经常用“现代”（且肤浅的）思维方式去理解古代人的想法。

namazlur78
In ancient time java is a Chinese trading port

在古代，爪哇岛是中国的贸易港口。

DraogonStar
But this traders pay customs recorded at many Old(ancient) Java inscription....just same like today, no matter at what port are you trading as long as you pay the customs.
- and ancient time Java also export various goods to China as recorded Ma Huan

这些商人会缴纳关税，许多古代爪哇的铭文里都有记载。就像今天一样，不管在哪个港口贸易，只要缴纳关税就行。而且据马欢记载，古代爪哇也向中国出口各种商品。

TheIdiosyncraticMe-t3u
Well, does anyone interested in Qing relics? My family have it.

嗯，有人对清朝文物感兴趣吗？我家里有。