Why can't India make indigenous fighter jets and wons?(2)



Rohith Kumar, works at Hyderabad, Telangana, India

Originally Answered: Why is India so dependent on other countries for defense, wons, aircraft, fighter planes etc? Does India not have the pential to have indigenous technology?

India's go nment has turned down its military's request to expand the acquisition of 36 fighter planes from Dassault Aviation SA to plug vital gaps, offi als said, nudging it to accept an indigenous combat plane 32 years in the making.

Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi's decision, in line with his Make-in-India policy to encourage domestic industry, is a blow for not only the French manufacturer but also others circling over the Indian military aviation market worth billions of dollars.

The push for India's struggling Tejas light combat aircraft (LCA) also comes at a time when the Indian Air Force (IAF) is at its weakest operational strength since the 1962 war ag inst , which is causing anety within military circles.

Since it took over last year, the Modi administration has repeatedly said its overriding goal is to cut off the military's addiction to foreign arms which has made it the world's top importer.

The air force wanted the go nment to clear an additional 44 Rafale medium multirole aircraft on top of the 36 that Modi announced during a visit to Paris this year that are to be bought off-the-shelf to meet its urgent requirements.

Read: Rafale fighter jets deal between India and France in jeopardy








But a defense ministry offi al said that Indian Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar had told the Indian air force that there weren't enough funds to expand the Rafale acquisition and that it must induct an improved version of the indigenous Tejas-Mark 1A.

"The IAF (air force) needs to have a minimum number of aircraft at all times. The LCA is our best option at this stage, given our resource constraints," the defense offi al said.

"The Rafale is our most expensive acquisition. The LCA is our chest in the combat category."

India's air force says its requires 45 fighter squadrons to counter a "two-front collusive threat" from Pakistan and . But it only has 35 active fighter squadrons, parliament's defense committee said in a report in April citing a presentation by a top air force officer.

With the drawdown of Soviet-era MiG 21 planes under way, the air force would be down to 25 squadrons by 2022 at the current pace of acquisitions, it told the committee.

Cleared by the go nment in 1983, the LCA designed by the go nment's Defense Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) was meant to be the backbone of the air force due for induction in 1994.

Instead, it suffered years of delay and chaos with scientists trying to build the world's most modern light combat aircraft from scratch, including the engine.





该委员会表示,随着前苏联时期MiG 21飞机数量的减少,按照目前的采购速度,到2022年,印度空军的战斗机中队数量将减少到25个。



Eventually they scrapped the engine, turning to GE Aviation and lowering their ambitions for a state-of-the-art fighter. So far, only one aircraft has been produced and even that is awaiting final operational clearance, now delayed to early 2016.

"In January this year, they had given one LCA ... which had not completed its flight testing. They handed over the papers to us. We do not make a squadron with one aeroplane. That is where we are," said an air force officer speaking on condition of anonymity.

Safety concerns

An independent investigation by the Comptroller and Auditor General of India into the LCA program identified 53 "shortfalls" in the plane. In a report in May, the auditor said that the plane wasn't as light as promised, the fuel capacity and speed were lower than required and there were concerns about safety.

Retired Air Marshal M. Matheswaran, a former deputy chief of the Integrated Defense Staff, said the LCA was obsolete.

"It is a very short-range aircraft which has no relevance in today's war fighting scenarios. If you are trying to justify this as a replacement for follow-on Rafales, you are comparing apples with oranges."

He said the plane was at best a technology demonstrator on which Indian engineers could build the next series of aircraft, not something the air force could win a war with.










Rishabh Umrao, studied Mechanical Engineering at MVJ College of Engineering

Originally Answered: When will India succeed in manufacturing indigenous wons?

Well I don't know if you were aware of this fact, but YES we are manufacturing wons indigenously and not from 1 or 2 years but 4 decades.

We have recently built ALH, LCH, LAH, LCA TEJAS, AKA MISSILE, AAD ANTI MISSLE DEFENCE SYSTEMS, BRAHMOS, AEW&CS (Airborne Early Warning Sy em), HAWK-i Trainer Jet and now India is planning to develop AMCA (advanced medium combat aircraft) in near future. I'll recommend you to just browse internet and see developments happened at AERO INDIA 2017 and see the deals signed.

And most importantly we are the only country in the world which has the power to deploy a BALLISTIC CRUISE MISSILE (BRAHMOS in this case) THROUGH A FIGHTER Plane (SU 30 MKI).

We have recently inducted Medium range Artillery Gun known as ATAGS (Advanced Towed Artillery Gun Sy em) and DHANUSH Artillery Gun sy em.

We have developed 5th Generation Stealth Aircraft with Russia known as PAK-FA ( Perspektivny Aviatsionny Kompleks Frontovoy Aviatsii) and FGFA (Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft) and as expected these should be delivered by 2019–20 in IAF.

So saying that India has not developed any Indigenous Won is wrong.

And more important fact is that there is not a single country in the world which is manufacturing their wons completely indigenously. Even USA's Aircraft components are being supplied from India. Point is that By what level are we able to make our product Indigenously.

So be proud of your country.

译文来源:三泰虎 http://www.santaihu.com/47462.html 译者:Joyceliu



我们最近建造了ALH、LCH、LAH、LCA TEJAS、AKA导弹、AAD反导弹防御系统、布拉莫斯、AEW&CS(机载预警系统)、HAWK-i教练机,现在印度还计划在不久的将来研发AMCA(先进中型战斗机)。我建议你浏览一下互联网,看看印度航空2017年的发展,看看签署的协议。

最重要的是,我们是世界上唯一有能力通过战斗机(SU 30 MKI)部署弹道巡航导弹(布拉莫斯导弹)的国家。


我们与俄罗斯合作开发了第五代隐形飞机PAK-FA (Perspektivny Aviatsionny Kompleks Frontovoy Aviatsii)和FGFA(第五代战斗机),预计将于2019-2020年进入印度空军服役。





Chandra Bhanu Prakash, Pensive; Impulsive; Inquisitive

Originally Answered: Why in the world can't India manufacture fighter jets like the Rafale?

We do not need to develop a fighter like the Rafale in question. This is our answer to the big fishes of the defence industry.




Its a Sukhoi PAK T-50 FGFA(Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft) jointly being developed by Russia and India. The Rafale, from the Dassault Aviation assembly line is a 3rd gen/3rd and a half gen fighter plane. It doesn't even come closer to what we are going to have in a couple of years.

The thing is that we are a poor country and hence have far more basic problems to deal with. We lack the infrastructure to go all out and develop ultra advanced wonry. So, have to rely heavily on west for fulfillment of our defence equipments' need. Nevertheless, it hasn't stopped us from develo Brahmos or INS Vishakhapattnam or INS Kolkata. Agree, We are running at Mr. turtle's pace (due to financial and geo-po itical problems) but, In the not so distant future we are bound to dominate this field like all other fields we do.

这是由俄罗斯和印度联合开发的苏霍伊PAK T-50 FGFA(第五代战斗机)。阵风,来自达索航空装配线是第三代/第三代半战斗机,与我们在未来几年内将要拥有的东西完全不在同一个级别。



Swapnil Kabra, Chief Investment Strategist at Credible Cow (2011-present)

Originally Answered: Why in the world can't India manufacture fighter jets like the Rafale?

India became a free nation in 1947. By then, the European and the Russian nations had 50 year odd experience in the field. After independence, India had more chronic problems to deal with than con trate on manufacturing defence equipments.

Over the period of time, India has emerged as one of the leading nations in research and technology (for instance, ISRO's Mars mission). However, manufacturing a world class fighter jet requires superior technological infrastructure. The deal with Dassault includes promise of domestic manufacturing in the form of offsets, joint ventures and contracts for purchase of components for Rafale. Mark my words, India would manufacture world class defence equipments in 20 years from now.

P.S. The design stage of Rafale started in 1978, it took its first flight in 1986 and was introduced in 2001: a production cycle of 23 years.






Eeshan Katoch

Originally Answered: Why is India so dependent on other countries for defense, wons, aircraft, fighter planes etc? Does India not have the pential to have indigenous technology?

I am not an expert by any chance in this matter and whatever I have to say is with personal experience and random reading. The fact of the matter is that after independence India invested in low output ( more useful at the times ) technology like green revo tion and stuff whereas our neighbours, the invested in high output technologies like nuclear power and wons etc. Therefore, they have red a much greater benefit of that than us. Moreover, the metallurgy is India in not very good. The wons that we have got from Russia ages ago work very fine, howsoever old they may be and the new age wons that India has so called developed in the recent times is stuttering ahead due to huge design flaws which we realise very damn late( after inception) and really shitty metallurgy. The motors that they ( vintage Russia) provided us have never suffered a problem but new age Indian motors appear to have a lot of issues. Then again India is still not investing in R&D of wons etc as aggressively as it should. The scientists in the few won research labs across India are also not too notch for the fact that they are paid stupidly and hence returns are expectedly less. The budget of this year also shows that even though the defence budget has increased, it is not on par with the rate at which we want to grow (search it up). The non estence of defence people in the defence ministry hierarchy is also a reason and a stupid one for that matter as we are only one of the few countries who have this problem in the world, a big loophole for the country wanting to be at least regional superpower. This leads to controversial decisions. Whereas the country might not have money for the project that the armed forces want and hence wants a cher option, the armed forces does not care about this because it's looking at it from its own perspective and a cher option will not, by any chance , improve its capabilities and the decision to go ahead with sub standard equipment leads to no increase in capability as well as a bad set of equipment.

Just a small perspective.....





Abhishek Raj, works at NIIT

Originally Answered: Why in the world can't India manufacture fighter jets like the Rafale?

The quick answer is a big YES. India can manufacture fighter jets like the Rafale or even better in coming decade.After almost 30 years of planning and development for the Tejas LCA, India is placed in a elite league of countries who can manufacture fighter aircrafts of their own.Though Tejas is not as capable and advanced as other current generation aircrafts, It has helped India to build a whole range of manufacturing hubs starting from Engines to ancillary parts.We now have dedicated industries to cater to this fighter aircraft aviation industries.The Indian go nment's "self-reliance" goals for the LCA include development of the three most sophisticated — and hence most challenging — sy ems: the fly-by-wire (FBW)flight control sy em (FCS), multi-mode pulse-do ler radar, and afterburning turbofan engine.After acquiring these most important built capabilities we are on the path of self reliance on fighter aircraft manufacturing.



A fully operational Tejas LCA:



HAL Tejas


Now the answer to why can't we manufacture if we have achieved so much.

The answer lies in a mix of indian mindset and current operational need of IAF.We are in deep trouble with respect to number of fighter aircraft squadron in IAF. We require more than 250 aircrafts in less than 5 years.

Otherwise in case of two front war from both and Pakistan , we will be in big trouble. So,the quick and tested solution is buying the ones like Rafale which has proved its mantle in a gruesome sion process by Indian forces. We have also a clause for investing back the 30% of buy price in India itself which will help create more jobs in this industry.

And now about Indian mindset.We are people who always have considered the foreign made things as more robust and technically advanced. So even if produce something like Rafale ,the world and more importantly we ourselves wont consider it as a big achievement. And the process of development fighter aircraft requires more than just base industries, it requires a conducive environment and supporting go nment.If India starts investing handsomely in this industry , people will start questioning its intentions and whole lot of ruckus will start.

So in the best interest of our country, the current Rafale deal is the need of hour. However, in the long run we are on path of develo our own fighters as in case of joint venture of India and Russia the T-50 PAK FA and the very indigenous Tejas LCA 2 together with our own fighter engines.Amen.






A prototype PAK FA:




Suyash Chandak, Chocolate Marketer, MBA and BSc (Economics)

Originally Answered: Why doesn't India manufacture its own fighter planes? Wouldn't it be cher and safer than buying from any other country?

International treaties and laws prevent sale or transfer of technology of nuclear capable missiles. But there are no such law preventing sale of fighter planes by one country to another. 

This meant India was and is a market for fighter planes. This lead to various countries and defence companies lobbying heavily to sell their products. This not only involved promoting their product but also involved shunting the development of any indigenous competitor. 

Since the commission of Tejas on 1983 India has finalised deals to import Jaguar, Mirage 2000, Sukhoi 30 MKI and finally MMRCA (Dassault Rafale finalised.) 

The same hasn't happened to our guided missile and space program. Sanctions did deny them technological transfer but they also acted as a prection from foreign company lobbying.  

This signifies the importance of transparent defence procurement.  

But having said this the recent procurements by IAF like Sukhoi 30 MKI, Dassault Rafale and Sukhoi FGFA (to be inducted post 2017) are as good as any fighter plane in their respective categories. We need to have a combination of indigenous and foreign technology.




自1983年光辉战机委员会成立以来,印度已经敲定了进口捷豹、幻影2000、苏霍伊30 MKI以及最终的MMRCA(阵风达索最终敲定)的协议。





Mike Mckenna, Lots of flights in Warbird Jets

Indians perfectly capable of develo their own aircraft and wons sy ems and they have done so. I think they are very smart in letting OTHER countries spend the billions of dollars in research and testing and THEN buy this foreign product when it has been proven. By remaining non aligned and a bit coy, the Indians can buy the best of what Europe, Russians, Japanese, and American’s have to offer. Indian Aero-Space research and manufacturing may suffer from this policy, but the Indians end up with the best products at the best price. This is what National Defense is really about, precting your Country without Bankrupting it.



Sumit Bisht, an aam aadmi

Originally Answered: Why indian defence purchases/imports most of its wons ,aircrafts,ships etc.Why can't we indigenously make wons like israel,,france etc?

It is cher to buy a completely built product rather than research and develop one from scratch. Not everything is purchased as a completly built unit. Some are purchased under technology transfer/local manufacture or even leased to Indian armed forces to enable it to gain expertise.

Some of the successful defense wons that have originated from India are actually products of JV between other countries and this is going to continue for foreseeable future.

Over time, this will change and the indigenous production will prove to be cher- a fact that is going to be reality in Indian navy earlier than the army and air force.





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