从这里了解印度人对中国的看法

印度缺少中国锲而不舍的追求精神

2012-07-27 09:36 49个评论 字号:

苏米特·甘谷利担任印度文化文明泰戈尔文学系的主席职位,是布卢明顿印第安纳大学政治学的一名教授,也是外交关系委员会和国际战略研究所的成员。他称印度经济不是因为外部因素而下滑,而是因为国内问题。印度人应该像中国人那样锲而不舍地追求至关重要的国家利益。甘谷利在接受费萨尔·基德瓦伊的电话采访时称,博福斯事件给官员带来的恐惧如此之大,以致于没有哪个官僚主义者会迅速批准供应商的投标,他们害怕遭受金融违法行为指控。

原文标题:India lacks China’s ruthless pursuit
原文链接:http://www.rediff.com/business/slide-show/slide-show-1-interview-sumit-ganguly-india-lacks-chinas-ruthless-pursuit/20120724.htm

印度农民在耕种

印度农民在耕种

India’s economy is slowing down not because of external factors, but due to domestic issues, says Sumit Ganguly, who holds the Rabindranath Tagore Chair in Indian Cultures and Civilisations and is a Professor of Political Science at Indiana University in Bloomington.

Ganguly, who is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations and the International Institute of Strategic Studies, says Indians should pursue crucial national interests as ruthlessly as the Chinese.

Fear of another Bofors happening is so great that no bureaucrat is going to swiftly approve tender for fear that they might be accused of financial malfeasance, he tells Faisal Kidwai in a telephonic interview.

Here are the excerpts:

In a widely-quoted Foreign Policy article, you have highlighted some that issues that could hold India back from becoming a superpower. The first problem area you have focused on is the economy.

That’s because policy making is adrift at the moment and foreign investors are loath to invest in the country, plus they have destinations that are more transparent so, consequently, India will be the loser.

Then there are the series of scams that have broken out, starting with 2G and coal procurement, and the apparent inability of the political elite to act decisively against the perception of widespread corruption in high places.

So, both of these factors are inhibiting foreign investments and thereby hurting India’s prospects. It’s very easy to say, well, there’s a global economic downturn, Europe is in disarray and that’s why we are not doing well. But that, I think, is a dishonest answer.

苏米特·甘谷利担任印度文化文明泰戈尔文学系的主席职位,是布卢明顿印第安纳大学政治学的一名教授,也是外交关系委员会和国际战略研究所的成员。他称印度经济不是因为外部因素而下滑,而是因为国内问题。印度人应该像中国人那样锲而不舍地追求至关重要的国家利益。

甘谷利在接受费萨尔·基德瓦伊的电话采访时称,博福斯事件给官员带来的恐惧如此之大,以致于没有哪个官僚主义者会迅速批准供应商的投标,他们害怕遭受金融违法行为指控。

(三泰虎注:博福斯事件,印度从瑞典的博福斯公司购置1500门FH77式155毫米榴弹炮。然而这次买卖牵扯到的行贿举动被检举)

以下是一些摘录:

在一篇被广泛引用的外交政策文章里,你强调了可能会阻止印度成为超级大国的一些问题。你所关注的首个问题领域是经济。

问题的原因在于目前的政策飘忽不定,外国投资者不情愿在印度投资,再加上他们有政策更透明的投资目的地,结果是印度成为输家。

此外还爆发一系列丑闻,一开始是2G丑闻和煤炭采购门,还有政治精英明显没有能力对高层的普遍腐败采取决定性的行动。

所以,两个因素都约束了外国投资,因而伤害了印度的发展前景。你可以很容易地将我们表现不好的原因归咎于全球经济下滑和欧洲的混乱。但是我认为这是个不诚实的答案。

孟买的一名男孩在玩蹦床

孟买一男孩在玩蹦床

Much as I respect [Prime Minister] Manmohan Singh, I disagree with him on this because, as a superbly trained economist, he should know that India is not an export-led growth economy. And although India is much more globally integrated today than it was in 1991, the principal impetus for growth doesn’t come from export. Major export sectors are services and, yes, they’ve been hurt to some degree, but that’s not the whole story.

The real issues are domestic. Lack of transparent regulatory and investment climate; the massive subsidies that are bleeding the country and also contributing to budget deficit; the poor and uneven quality of infrastructure; lack of decent aviation policy, with continuing subsidies to Air India, even though it shows no capacity to discipline itself – all of this is having a sandbagging effect on the economy.

What are the reasons for this sorry state of affairs?

There’s lack of leadership and inability to manage coalition partners. West Bengal Chief Minister Mamata Banerjee hasn’t been helpful on a number of issues, but the task of leadership is to manage these kinds of differences. Political differences in a vibrant democracy like India are inevitable, particularly when there’s a coalition government, where coalition members are going to be moved by the particular interests of their constituency. But the real genius, talent of political leadership must be to find ways around these issues.

A very senior administrator in West Bengal told me not long ago that, ‘Look, how many times Manmohan Singh has flown down to the state to talk to Mamata Banerjee? Had he flown down to talk to a somewhat unwilling soul, then perhaps she might have been more willing to cooperate’.

The lack of cooperation with allies in parliament is simply striking.

尽管我非常尊重曼莫汉·辛格总理,但是我在这点上不同意他的看法,因为作为一个极其出色的经济学家,他应该知道印度不是一个出口导向型的经济。虽然印度相比1991年时整合进全球经济的程度要大得多,但是经济的主要推动力不是来自出口。主要的出口部门是服务业。是的,服务业也遭受到了某种程度的伤害,但是这并非问题的全部。

真正的问题来自国内。缺乏透明的监管机制和良好的投资氛围;大量补贴掏空了国家,带来了财政赤字;质量参差不齐的可怜基础设施;缺乏恰当的航空政策,即使印度航空没有表现出自律能力,国家还是持续给予补贴——所有这些会给经济带来沙袋式负面效应。

这种可悲状况的原因是什么?

原因是领导能力的缺乏和没有能力管理联盟伙伴。西孟加拉邦首席部长玛玛塔·班纳吉在许多问题上并没有帮上忙,可是领导层的任务本是应对各种分歧。在印度这样皿煮如此活跃的国家,政治分歧是不可避免的,特别是执政的是联合政府,政府里各党派会受到所代表选民特殊利益的驱使。但是真正有才能的政治领导层必须寻找逾越这些问题的方法。

西孟加拉邦一名非常高级的行政长官不久前告诉我,“看,曼莫汉·辛格有多少次飞到这个邦与玛玛塔·班纳吉会谈?他有飞过来同一个不大情愿配合的人会谈吗?或许班纳吉到时候会更愿意合作”。

与盟友合作的缺乏在议会里更加引人注目。

科钦一名渔民的女儿在文伯纳德湖划船去捕鱼

科钦一名渔民的女儿在文伯纳德湖划船去捕鱼

Do you see the situation improving?

One keeps hearing from the prime minister that he understands that the economy is slowing down, that he understands that there are anxieties, that he intends to take important decision, but until there’s concrete action, one will wonder whether the country will continue to drift and whether people will continue to suffer.

It’s a tragic commentary on a country that has no dearth of talent, no dearth of ideas and entrepreneurship. But none of these things can thrive unless there are transparent policies and proper incentives.

In that article, you have said that China is way ahead of India when it comes to securing international oil and gas contracts. Why is India falling behind?

The Chinese are more adept and ruthless in their pursuit of national interests. They are very clearly focused on what their goals are, they have – for most part – consensus on how to pursue these goals. Now, there are admittedly differences between the more hardline elements and the Chinese foreign ministry, but in terms of critical goals, there’s substantial consensus and they pursue these goals with considerable vigour.

Unfortunately, one fails to see the emergence of similar consensus and agreement that there are certain critical national interests that should be pursued regardless of ideology and regardless of party politics and, much to the country’s detriment; I don’t see that happening in India.

你有看到局面改善吗?

人们总是听到总理唠叨,即他理解经济在放缓,人们在担忧,他打算做重要的决定。但是在具体行动展开前,人们会纳闷,即国家是否会继续漂浮不定,人们是否会继续受苦。

对于一个不缺乏天才、不缺乏创意和企业家精神的国家来说,这是一条悲剧性的评论。除非建立透明的政策和合理的激励措施,否则这些都兴旺不起来。

在那篇文章中,你说就确保国际石油和天然气合同而言,中国遥遥领先印度。为什么印度落在后面?

中国人在追求国家利益方面更内行,更锲而不舍。他们非常清楚自己所关注的目标。大多数情况下,他们在追求这些目标时能够取得共识。如今,中国也承认强硬派和外交部之间存在分歧,但是在至关重要的目标方面能够取得实质性的共识,并以相当大的活力来追求这些目标。

不幸地是,人们没有看到类似共识和协议的出现。不管是什么意识形态,不管属于哪个政党,大家肯定有一些需要追求的至关重要的国家利益。对国家相当不利的是我没有看到这样的事情在印度发生。

 

新德里的商贩在卖棉花糖

新德里的商贩在卖棉花糖

You have also said that tensions with Pakistan will increase over Afghanistan.

Absolutely. There’s no question about it. Pakistani military elite is determined to undermine India’s position in Afghanistan. Part of it is fantasy and paranoia that India plans to sandwich Pakistan between Afghanistan and itself and part of it is simply long-standing anxiety that exists about a much powerful neighbour which, despite all the problems that I’ve outlined, is doing much better than Pakistan on every dimension.

Consequently, there are anxieties about India, but these anxieties are deliberately exaggerated by the military establishment, which wants to protect its extraordinary privileges and wants to maintain its position of superiority in Pakistan. One way to maintain all this is to highlight the threat from India and to say that India is interested in encircling Pakistan.

If Pakistan were to give up supporting terror in Kashmir, I doubt that India would be as concerned about having a strategic bridge in Afghanistan. India would still have friendlier relations with Afghanistan and try to promote economic development and would, obviously, prefer not to see return of Taliban.

But India would not be so aggressively pursuing strategic relations with Afghanistan, were it not for the fact that Pakistan remains passionately committed to the return of Taliban-like regime, which would be definitely detrimental to India’s interests and interests of many other world powers.

You have said that the United States shouldn’t bet that India will be its useful ally. Why aren’t you hopeful about India forging strong ties with the US?

New Delhi is still debating what kind of relations it should have with Washington and the debate is still not settled yet. There are number of constituencies who have different visions of what constitutes stable relationship with the United States.

Until that debate is resolved, and it’s appropriate that such kinds of debates should take place, but it’s time that India try and settle the internal debate and decide what kind of relationship suits India. But until the dust settles, there will be turbulence in India-US relationship.

你也说过中巴紧张关系会在阿富汗加剧。

绝对会。这是毫无疑问的。巴基斯坦军队的精英决意在阿富汗破坏印度的局面。部分原因是巴基斯坦人幻想和固执地认为印度计划在阿富汗和自己之间夹击巴基斯坦;部分原因是长期存在的担忧,即尽管存在我所勾画出的种种问题,印度这个强大得多的邻国在各方面都比巴基斯坦做得好的多。

结果是出现对印度的担忧,但是这些担忧被军队故意夸大,旨在保护其在巴基斯坦的特权和优越地位。其中一个保护方法是突显来自印度的威胁,宣称印度有兴趣包围巴基斯坦。

如果巴基斯坦放弃支持克什米尔的恐怖活动,我怀疑印度是否会如此关注在阿富汗建立战略桥梁。印度仍会与阿富汗建立友好关系,努力促进经济发展,明显会不大喜欢塔利班的归来。

对于印度和世界许多其他大国的利益来说,塔利班式政权无疑是不利的。要是巴基斯坦不如此热衷于塔利班式政权的回归,印度也不会如此积极追求与阿富汗建立战略关系。

你说过美国不应该赌注印度会成为其有用的盟友。为什么你希望印度与美国打造强大关系?

新德里仍然在争议应该与华盛顿建立什么样的关系,这个争议仍然没有定论。有许多选民对美印稳定关系的构成成分持有不同的观点。

出现这样的争议是合适的。不过印度是该努力解决内部争议和决定什么样的关系适合印度。但是在尘埃落定前,美印关系会出现动荡。

You have criticised the defence acquisition process. What are the major issues that are hampering India’s military?

Defence acquisition process remains antiquated, is extremely slow and so it takes India too much time to acquire requisite military hardware. The military is often frustrated with the slow pace of acquisitions.

But the fear of another Bofors happening is so great that no bureaucrat is going to swiftly approve tender for fear that they might be accused of financial malfeasance and then there’s the defence minister who, I think, is inherently cautious. He’s a decent and honest man, but he’s a slow and rather deliberate decision maker, which complicates matters further.

Another area that you have focused on is the Hindu-Muslim issue. Many say that the BJP is trying to shed its right-wing image. How do you view this issue?

I’m not hopeful because if you see the language BJP uses, if you see who the BJP made its president, if you see the fact that someone like [Gujarat Chief Minister] Modi can be seriously considered as a possible prime minister, then you have to remain anxious about Hindu-Muslim relations.

Some experts have pointed out that there has been a steady decline in communal clashes since the BJP left the office at the centre, but that doesn’t convince me that the pernicious ideology that certain members of BJP, and particularly RSS, still adhere to exists and they haven’t departed from the unpleasant vision of India.

So, one must maintain a certain vigil because the last thing India needs is any kind of communal violence. Hatred towards minorities is not a recipe for social stability of India, leaving aside the moral issue.

But Modi’s supporters claim he is a superb administrator and cite the investments the state has attracted in recent years.

There have been reports that show that despite the steady inflow of both foreign and domestic investments into Gujarat, the state isn’t doing that well in terms of poverty elevation and access to healthcare.

Its social statistics don’t bear out to Modi’s claims. Yes, he may be wonderful administrator when it comes to attracting investments, but who this investment is benefitting? Is the growth in Gujarat trickling down to significant segments of the population? And it might be interesting to disaggregate these statistics by caste and religion to see how certain disadvantaged groups and minorities are faring in Gujarat.

It’s very easy to look at aggregate statistics, but these figures should be broken down to see how particular communities are faring.

你批评国防采购过程。束缚印度军队的主要问题是什么?

国防采购过程仍然是过时的,进度非常慢,所以印度需要很长时间才能获得必要的军事装备。军队经常对缓慢的采购感到失望。

博福斯事件给官员带来的恐惧如此之大,以致于没有哪个官僚主义者会迅速批准供应商的投标,他们害怕遭到金融违法行为指控。我认为国防部长是天生谨慎的。他是一个正派的老实人,但是也是一个迟钝和深思熟虑的决策者,这让事情进一步复杂化。

你关注的另一领域是印度教徒和msl之间的问题。许多人说印度人民党试图摆脱其右翼形象。你是如何看待这个问题的?

我对此不敢寄望,因为如果你看印度人民党使用的语言,如果你看印度人民党所选的总统,如果你看穆迪等一些人被当做一名候选总理严肃看待,那么你会不得不担心印度教徒和msl的关系。

一些专家指出,自从印度人民党离开权利中心以来,群体冲突在稳步下降。但是这没有令我相信某些印度人民党成员,特别是右翼组织成员,仍然拥护的有害意识形态还存在,并仍然没有离开印度不愉快的视野。

所以,人们必须保持一定的警惕,因为印度最不想要的就是群体冲突。撇开道德问题,对少数族群的仇恨并不是印度社会稳定的良方。

但是穆迪的支持者声称穆迪是极好的行政官,并引述该邦最近几年吸引的投资。

有报告显示尽管国内外的投资稳步流入古吉拉特邦,但是该邦在消除贫穷和医疗保健方面做得并不好。

古吉拉特邦的社会统计并没有证明穆迪的宣称。是的,就吸引投资而言,他可能是很棒的行政官,但谁是投资的受惠者?古吉拉特邦的发展是否有惠及大多数人?根据种姓和宗教来分解这些统计数据可能是有趣的,可以看出某些弱势群体和少数族群在古吉拉特邦是如何过日子的。

总体统计数字是很可观,但是这些数据应该被分解,以便看出特殊群体是如何过日子的。

以下是印度网民的评论:

Caste based reservation and dynasty politics is the real cause
by Sudhir (View MyPage) on Jul 25, 2012 10:31 AM | Hide replies

Caste based Rservation and Dynasty Politics is the real cause of India ‘s failure. Further, our corrupt politicians since Nehru first divided India then divided Indians on the basis of caste , religion, language, province etc and now they are looting the country…

基于种姓的预留制和王朝政治是印度失败的真正原因。而且,自从尼赫鲁以来的腐败政客首先分裂印度,然后又基于种姓、宗教、语言、邦籍等分裂印度人。他们如今在抢劫国家…

Re: Caste based reservation and dynasty politics is the real caus
by Roy (View MyPage) on Jul 25, 2012 11:00 AM
When Arabs and Brtish attacked India,why India failed to defend,is due to Caste based Reservation and Dynasty politics?

当阿拉伯人和英国人攻击印度时,为什么印度没有守住?是因为基于种姓的预留制和王朝政治吗?

Re: Re: Caste based reservation and dynasty politics is the real
by Susan Held (View MyPage) on Jul 25, 2012 11:14 AM
Arabs attacked and started ruling India after the rise of Buddhism in India after the fall of Mauryan empire when Indians started chanting peace. British were invited into India by the Mughal Ruler Jehangir.

孔雀帝国没落,随之佛教在印度兴起,印度人开始高喊和平,随后是阿拉伯人攻击并开始统治印度。英国人是莫卧儿统治者贾汗季邀请进印度的(译文来源:三泰虎)。

Re: Caste based reservation and dynasty politics is the real caus
by Ravi (View MyPage) on Jul 25, 2012 11:55 AM
the same comments goes on and on and on and on…

Thats the reason India is suffering in fact, from never ending analysis paralysis.

同样的评论一直在重复出现…

事实上,这就是印度遭受苦难的原因,永远无止境的分析瘫痪症。

IsKhan-gress going to allow India to become a Super power?
by jaggu (View MyPage) on Jul 25, 2012 09:52 AM | Hide replies

Look at the track record of super power :

Killings of Hindus in Pakistan 5 Cr- ( Indian Govt does not say anything)

Killing of Hindus in Bangladesh : 30 Lacs( Indian Govt treated the killers – 95000 soldiers who had surrendered as state guests and sent them back)

POK – After winning 1971 war we FORGOT to ask back our land.

看看超级大国过去的记录:

在巴基斯坦杀害了5000万印度教徒(印度政府什么也没说)

在孟加拉国杀害了300万印度教徒(印度政府把这些刽子手——9.5万名投降的士兵当做贵宾,并送回了孟加拉国)

巴占克什米尔——在赢得1971年印巴战争后,我们忘记了要回我们的土地。

Ravi
Re: IsKhan-gress going to allow India to become a Super power?
by Ravi (View MyPage) on Jul 25, 2012 11:53 AM
I don’t know what you are talking about.

India will be economic superpower in next 3 years, no matter whether the world comes to an end.

我不知道你在说什么。

不管世界末日是否会到来,印度会在未来3年里成为经济超级大国。

China facts are hidden
by jai (View MyPage) on Jul 25, 2012 09:30 AM | Hide replies

India may not be there…but China has hidden figures and cant be trusted…just like china goods

印度的数据可能就是那样…但是正如中国货一样,中国掩盖了数据,不值得信任…

Re: China facts are hidden
by Ravi (View MyPage) on Jul 25, 2012 11:51 AM
welcome to civilization.

欢迎来到文明世界

Who is this clown?
by Ravi (View MyPage) on Jul 25, 2012 04:36 AM

This is not rocket science. Every indian is aware of this.

Indians only make noise and keep themselves paralyzed in endless analysis. Blame it on our education format.

Meanwhile China takes away the cake in global arena.

这不是什么火箭科技。每个印度人都意识到了这点。

印度人不仅制造杂音,而且老是让自己瘫痪在无尽的分析中。这应该归咎于我们的教育模式。

与此同时,中国夺走了世界竞技舞台上的蛋糕。

India lacks China’s ruthless pursuit’
by t prasad (View MyPage) on Jul 24, 2012 02:44 PM | Hide replies

As per the ruthlessness, India is not assertive like the Chinese, It is because , we have a democracy, while China is a communist country. In china, the offenders are hanged if found, where as in India we go to court for a crime. Moreover, we are very lethargic towards our work and always have the attitude Chaltaiah hai, then you can’t expect a growth

就冷酷方面而言,印度不像中国人那么独断,因为我们有皿煮,而中国是共产国家。在中国,罪犯被发现是会被处死的,而我们在印度是去法庭起诉。更重要的是,我们对工作持非常冷漠的态度,所以你无法期望经济发展。

Re: India lacks China’s ruthless pursuit’
by ajith sudhakaran (View MyPage) on Jul 24, 2012 03:04 PM
I work in Muscat, Arabs come to our Nokia showroom and insist on made in India or Finland Nokia phones and say they do not want a Made in China Nokia phone, This says something about the quality in other markets doesnt it?

I WOULD BET THAT IF INDIAN PRODUCTS ARE AS CHEP AS THE CHINESE ONES (possible now that rupee has become cheaper)EVERYONE WOULD BUY INDIAN

我在马斯喀特工作(三泰虎注,马斯喀特是阿曼首都),阿拉伯人来到我们的诺基亚展厅,坚持要印度制造或者芬兰制造的诺基亚手机,并且称他们不想要中国制造的诺基亚手机。这表明了其他市场有关质量的一些事情,不是吗?

我敢打赌,如果印度产品与中国制造的产品一样便宜(可能卢比现在变得更便宜了),每个人都会购买印度产品!

Re: Re: India lacks China’s ruthless pursuit’
by Sonderaj (View MyPage) on Jul 25, 2012 12:04 AM
You are lying. Nokia doesn’t make cell phones in India.

你在说谎。诺基亚没有在印度生产手机。

Re: Re: Re: India lacks China’s ruthless pursuit’
by Susan Held (View MyPage) on Jul 25, 2012 10:39 AM
What nonsense. Chennai in India is one of the 9 manufacturing facilities of nokia world wide. Even more, India is one of the 7 countries where Nokia has research centers. Get you GK updated.

胡说八道。印度钦奈是诺基亚全球9大生产中心之一。更重要的是,印度是诺基亚设有研发中心的7个国家中的一个…

MMS and Industry
by ASA C (View MyPage) on Jul 24, 2012 01:45 PM | Hide replies

Like we studied for Professional Degree in life we have to be ruthless like China the benefit will be India out of poverty, more rich people, good tax collection for Govt and a modern India and our Children will also get benefit of it. MMS is a bookish economist who can grasp only paper economy like BSE,NSE,MFs Banks,FIs etc a problem.He has not kept Engrs around him but people like him only.Industry is the main source of Income for Govt hence he has to focus Industrial growth. He needs good Engineers with business and economic sense around him in addition to Rangarajan , Montek etc. Hu is an Engr and Chinese go all out for industry and projects thus their max result.

正如我们为了获得专业学位而努力学习一样,我们必须像中国那样锲而不舍,好处是印度会脱贫、出现更多的富人、政府会有不错的税收收入、国家变得现代、我们的孩子也会从中受益。辛格总理是书呆子经济学家,只掌握了BSE、NSE等理论经济……工业是政府收入的主要来源,因此他必须专注工业发展。除了拉贾拉江、蒙塔克等人外,辛格身边还需拥有商业和经济头脑的工程师。胡BOSS是一名工程师,中国人全力发展工业和工程,因此出了最大的成果。

Re: MMS and Industry
by ajith sudhakaran (View MyPage) on Jul 24, 2012 02:28 PM
Why do you think even a single innovative product has come out of china to date? only copy of western or Japanese products? not even the kind of software and services that Indian companies produce?because communism does not allow freedom of intellect where innovation is possible, it is because of this that only as long as the chinese yuan is artificially kept low and their products are cheap ( albeit low quality) will the Chinese economy be able to grow.

为什么你认为中国至今没有出一件创新产品?只是西方或者日本产品的山寨品?甚至不如印度公司提供的软件和服务?因为共产主义不允许可能带来创新的知识自由。正因如此,只要人民币被人为压低和他们的产品是便宜的,中国经济就会发展。

Re: Re: MMS and Industry
by loveleen (View MyPage) on Jul 24, 2012 02:41 PM
u r wrong. Chinese exports to India are of Cheap Quality, but not for others.

你错了。中国人出口印度的产品是低质的,但出口其他国家的不会。

Re: Re: MMS and Industry
by ASA C (View MyPage) on Jul 24, 2012 04:43 PM
Man,China is at 7T USD economy and India is at 2TUSD No. of people almost same.India is nowhere near them.Why to comment when you have not understood things.

老兄,中国经济是7万亿美元,印度是2万亿美元。人口几乎一样。印度连中国的边都沾不上。既然你不理解,为什么要评论。

China
by arungopal agarwal (View MyPage) on Jul 24, 2012 01:38 PM | Hide replies

An indisciplined country cannot be compared to disciplined one. China at least has wondered world with its population policy, lesser corruption within China, better employment, which we are lacking even after 65 yers of independence. Who stops to whom to bring such discipline in life. Only Govt. at centre are responsible for such mess.

不守纪律的国家无法与守纪律的国家相比。中国至少用人口政策、更少腐败、更好的就业等让世界惊愕。这是我们独立65年后仍然缺少的。谁阻止这样的纪律性在印度出现。只有中央政府才对如此混乱状态负有责任。

Wrong predictions
by Ajai Jacob (View MyPage) on Jul 24, 2012 01:24 PM | Hide replies

People have been predicting China’s collapse since long time saying their growth story is not sustainable,their market economics is wrong etc,etc.But China has grown so strong,becoming even capable of challenging big boy US of A.
Now somebody may reply,just wait and watch,China will soon collapse and India will become superpower in 9 and half years.Hahaha.

人们老早就预测中国会奔溃,说中国的发展是不可持续的,他们的市场经济是错误的等等。但是中国发展得如此强大,甚至变得有能力挑战美国这个大家伙。

一些人现在可能会回复称:等着瞧,中国不久会奔溃,印度在9年半里会成为超级大国,哈哈。

Re: Wrong predictions
by loveleen (View MyPage) on Jul 24, 2012 02:43 PM
keep dreaming!! .. BTW what calculations is that 9 abd half years?

继续做梦吧!…顺便问下,那个9年半是怎么算出来的?

how true
by socrates singh (View MyPage) on Jul 24, 2012 01:05 PM

well said Mr. Ganguly.
India needs to get moving and not search for excuses.

说得好,甘谷利先生。

印度需要前进,而不是去寻找借口。

Heart rules brain
by ashok kumar (View MyPage) on Jul 24, 2012 12:40 PM

Heart rules brain in India…..
Result 1) We are Bade Dilwale(big hearted)
2) We are poor

印度是心灵主宰头脑…结果是:

1、我们是慷慨的

2、我们是贫穷的

Truth
by Ajai Jacob (View MyPage) on Jul 24, 2012 12:59 PM

Unable to accept the truth,many people are becoming liars.The success of communist China is difficult to digest for many.
Heavily populated countries like India and China need ruthless systems like communism for fast-track development.Democracy is ok for low-populated countries like USA.Intelligent chinese understood this fact long back.This is the reason for China’s development.
India may become a superpower in 200 years,but China is already one.
Kuch paane ke liye kuch khona padta hai.Indians were not ready to lose their freedoms(like producing any number of children)for rapid development.So suffer under pseudo-democracy.

无法接受这个事实。许多人可能成为说谎者。许多人难以理解共禅中国的成功。为了获得快速发展,印度和中国等人口众多的国家需要无情的体制。皿煮对于美国这样低人口的国家是没问题的。聪明的中国人很早前就理解了这个事实。这就是中国发展的原因。

印度200年后可能成为超级大国,但是中国已经是超级大国了。印度人不会为了快速发展而牺牲自己的自由(比如想生多少孩子就生多少孩子的自由)。所以印度在伪皿煮下蒙受苦难。

CHINESE ARE LIARS
by ajith sudhakaran (View MyPage) on Jul 24, 2012 11:57 AM | Hide replies

The chinese economy grew by only 3% last quarter while they lied that it was 7.5%, This data is from the reliable market guru, Mark Faber on Bloomberg, other factors like low inflation, stockpiling of copper and crude, slump in electricity demand all point to this.India with 5.6% growth despite all the probs is much better,

中国经济上个季度只增长3%,而他们撒谎说增长了7.5%。数据来自于可靠的市场专家——彭博咨询的马克·费伯。其他因素也证明了这个,比如低通胀、囤积铜和原油、电力需求下降等。尽管所有因素都要可观得多,印度也只增长了5.6%。

Re: Re: CHINESE ARE LIARS
by ajith sudhakaran (View MyPage) on Jul 24, 2012 01:02 PM
We forget the fact that the Chinese are able to lie about their GDP growth percentage precisely because they are communist, while India cannot do the same, The Chinese are worried that with the lower value of the Rupee and Greater percentage GDP growth, most FDI will start flowing into India and other emerging economies, its as simple as that, Just wait and watch, in another 10 years India will have overtaken Chins in economy size.

我们忘记了这样一个事实,即中国人可以谎报GDP增长率,因为他们是共产主义者,而印度无法这样做。中国人担心更低汇率的卢比和更高的GDP增长速度会让大多数外资涌入印度和其他新兴国家。就是这么简单,等着瞧,再过十年,印度经济规模就会超过中国经济规模(译文来源:三泰虎)。

This Ganguly himself is a short little COWARD
by Dev Gupta (View MyPage) on Jul 24, 2012 11:47 AM | Hide replies

In debates with Pakitanis & Kashmiri Jihadis he regularly gives ground

这个甘谷利自己是个矮小的懦夫。在与巴基斯坦和克什米尔圣战分子之间的争议中,他通常是退却的。

Indian use Heart instead of Brain.
by Tushar Roy (View MyPage) on Jul 24, 2012 11:44 AM | Hide replies

Indian use Heart instead of Brain.
Outcome;
? No education
? Early marriage.
? Production of children in quantity and not in quality.
Ruthless Chinese;
Only country in the world to crush religious fundamentalist viz; Islamist.

印度人用心灵主宰头脑…

结果是:

1、没有教育

2、早婚

3、大量生小孩,而不是优生优育

无情的中国人:

世界上唯一镇压原教旨主义者的国家。

why no news on assam
by free trade (View MyPage) on Jul 24, 2012 11:41 AM | Hide replies

why no news on Assam. Hindus are being kil.led by the cong govt’s muzlm rowd.ies. more than 21 people died.

为什么没有阿萨姆邦的消息。超过21名印度教徒被国大党政府领导的msl流氓杀害。

Re: why no news on assam
by free trade (View MyPage) on Jul 24, 2012 11:45 AM
as if no one is bothered unless your dear ones are but.ch.ered!

除了有亲人被屠殺的人之外,似乎没有人会在意!

Huge Populatin
by Nikus Kumar (View MyPage) on Jul 24, 2012 11:39 AM

Indias population density is huge and had it been controlled, we would have been in progress path

印度的人口密度太大。要是人口受到控制了,我们就会步入发展轨道。

India
by Ravi (View MyPage) on Jul 24, 2012 11:21 AM | Hide replies

India can not become China.

India is democratic country and here political leadership is most corrupt who always makes one or other issue to hamper progress of the country. Moreover, most of the people in India has political mindset.

印度无法变身中国。

印度是皿煮国家,这里的政治领导层是最腐败的,他们总是制造这样或那样的问题来妨碍国家进步。更重要的是,大多数印度人的心态是政治导向的。

Re: India
by sunil (View MyPage) on Jul 24, 2012 11:26 AM
indus are cowards … happy to be ruled by foreign power…

印度人是懦夫…乐于被外国统治…

NE should join with China who can protect them from infiltrators
by Dragon Heart (View MyPage) on Jul 24, 2012 11:06 AM | Hide replies

NE should join with China who can protect them from the Bangldeshi infiltrators. India is only busy with vote bank politics .

东北邦应该加入中国,以免受孟加拉渗透者之害。印度只忙于票仓政治。

China will prosper because…
by neeru sharma (View MyPage) on Jul 24, 2012 10:59 AM | Hide replies

….it doesn’t have gems like Sonia Gandhi, Rahul Gandhi, Manmohan Singh, Sharad Pawar, A Raja, Kalmadi and many more !!!

中国之所以繁荣,是因为没有索尼娅·甘地、拉胡尔·甘地、曼莫汉·辛格、沙尔德·帕瓦尔、拉贾、卡尔玛迪等许多这样的“宝石”级人物!

Re: China will prosper because…
by Venugopalan (View MyPage) on Jul 24, 2012 11:07 AM
NO you are totally wrong, China do not have any opposition parties, what the Government decides, it implements, there is no democracy in China…in China you wont’ be free to air your opinion..

不,你完全错了,中国没有任何反对党。政府决定了什么政策,什么政策就会被实施。中国没有皿煮…你在中国不能自由发表看法…

Re: Re: China will prosper because…
by neeru sharma (View MyPage) on Jul 24, 2012 11:13 AM
A girl in Jharkhand was on TV the other day saying that she will eat tomorrow because it is her brother’s turn today ! I wonder if she needs food or democracy !!!

几天以前,贾坎德邦的一名女孩在电视上说她明天才能吃饭,因为今天轮到她哥哥吃了!我纳闷的是她是需要食物呢还是需要皿煮!(译文来源:三泰虎)

Re: Re: Re: China will prosper because…
by madan menon (View MyPage) on Jul 24, 2012 11:17 AM
it is because of bad food grains distribution management..thousands of tons of wheat and other grains are rotting in Food Corporation godowns but it is a tragedy that people are going hungry without one time meal…

这是因为糟糕的粮食分配管理…数千吨小麦和其他粮食在食品公司的仓库烂掉。人们忍饥挨饿、一天吃不上一顿饭是个悲剧…

Re: China will prosper because…
by sunil (View MyPage) on Jul 24, 2012 11:28 AM
china has many A rajas… but they have will to develop… no policy paralysis.. no court rulings…

中国有许多拉贾这样的人…但是他们有发展的意志…没有政策瘫痪…没有法庭裁决…

Re: Re: China will prosper because…
by prashant sinha (View MyPage) on Jul 24, 2012 12:31 PM
China has many A Rajas…Where did you get this information. Have you have made any investigation or is your thinking merely a cut and paste churning of propaganda coming from the mainstream corporate media of this country.The standard of living enjoyed by the average Chinese is way ahead of what an average Indian can even think of.All the degrading statistics of the world are linked to India in some way or the other. And whatever is left as a residue for the average Indian is also at the mercy of corruption which has a universal presence in this country.So even the residue of benefits that this system dishes out for the deprived is at the mercy of corrupt.Another interesting facet of this thinking is to divorce the concept of democracy from the basics of life that is the birthright of every individual. It is indeed a cunning way to circumvent the failure of the system which lavishly indulges in self praise which otherwise is in need of urgent surgery.

“中国有许多拉贾这样的人…”。你是从哪得来的信息。你有做过调查吗,或者这只是你从印度主流媒体那里“复制粘贴”过来的宣传?普通中国人的生活水平远远高于普通印度人所能想象得到的生活水平。世界所有令人尴尬的统计数据都以这样或者那样的方式与印度有关联。普通印度人的剩余遗产也受印度普遍存在的腐败的支配。连这个体系为穷人分发的残留福利也受到腐败的支配。另一个有趣方面是把皿煮的概念和每个人天生的基本权利分开来。的确,回避这个体制的失败是一种狡猾的方式。这个体制太过沉迷于自我赞扬,需要一场紧急改革。

友荐云推荐
  1. 几天以前,贾坎德邦的一名女孩在电视上说她明天才能吃饭,因为今天轮到她哥哥吃了!我纳闷的是她是需要食物呢还是需要民主!
    ————————————-
    这位清醒哥真相了!!

  2. 民主的印度媒体赶去拍摄一下真实的中国吗? 连中国最破的农村也一块拍,估计印度人连死的心都有了。

  3. 适合自己的才是最好的,印度需要的是一场自下而上的革命,要彻底的颠覆现有的社会体系,打破种姓制度,根据印度自身的情况确立一个新的政治、经济、社会体系,才能够取得大的发展,小范围的变革对印度没有什么太大的作用。

  4. 印度最近换总统了,虽然没实权,但有一定象征意义,有相关评论吗?不好意思,我没新闻源,只好做伸手党。

  5. 从前,我希望印度改变,现在,我希望印度保持现状。
    为什么要改变呢?印度社会和谐融合,包容并举。如果改变社会现状,那印度的高种姓与低种姓人群就不能和睦相处,贫民窟就会如中国那样被强行清拆,随处方便的自由就不复存在,母亲河恒河更不会成为人们的归宿之地了。
    为什么要改变?印度有宗教自由,印度教是人类最伟大的宗教。如果废弃印度教,那印度人就要即时面对残酷的现实,人的心性就会迷失,没冥想就会失去自由写意的幻觉,再者,赖以维系的种姓制度将随之瓦解,低种姓人群就会起来革命,社会将无法安定。废弃印度教,其他的教派就会乘机作大,这样的结果会导致冲突不断,印度将国将不国了。
    为什么要改变?印度与欧美国家关系密切,获得所有发达国家的支持与认可。如果改变体制,印度就会成为欧美国家的潜在敌人,他们会在资金,武器,技术上对印度设限,还会如遏制中国一样遏制印度,在失去靠山且实力不及中国的情况下,中国将更加骄横跋扈了。
    因此,印度不用改变,无须改变,只要保持现状,发挥印度人异想天开的精神,在神圣的湿婆指引下,印度不用十年,就会成为超级大国,请相信我。
    苏米特·甘谷说什么:印度缺少中国锲而不舍的追求精神。简直是一派胡言,印度不需要中国的锲而不舍的追求精神,那是灭人欲的恶劣行为,只有中国人才这样做。印度人需要什么?需要加大吹牛力度,加深冥想,深化YY,如能这样,印度必胜!!

  6. 一场很多中国人都不知道的小规模战斗就使印度人50年还念念不忘,处处以中国为标杆。
    看了三泰虎翻译的很多印度人评论,觉得印度网民YY战斗力还是比较强的嘛!奇怪的是和中越战争一样,都是咱们主动撤退了,性质差不多嘛!越南网民能YY出把解放军赶出越南,为何印度没人说把咱们赶出实际控制线,赢得战争?
    三泰虎有必要提醒他们一下,启发他们思维,呵呵!

    • 因为越南战争虽然中国达到了目标以后才撤退,但是总体伤亡比预计的大了不少,所以越南人觉得中国的撤退是逼于无奈。

    • 咋说呢?山顶洞人也很快乐,但是,对于追求更加美好生活的现代人来说,做出怎样的选择应该是不言而喻的。

  7. 虎兄辛苦了,看你的译文很享受,成了每天必做的功课,趁机还可以学点英语,呵呵。谢谢啦!

  8. 哎 这么多没能耐的屁民能提什么有价值的建议?就像89的学生 屁点的学生能做什么? 看着国家发展受阻 苏联解体 一部分仍然流亡在国外的学生早就思想有改变了

    政策制定之前可以有不同意见,下了以后就全力以赴,所以独党是必须的,党内民主也是必须的,又不是世袭制度,自己没料哪个党派都不会要你,印度屁民吓嚷嚷个啥啊,把全部国家财富平均分配给你 到手上也没多少

    国内现在的公务员是万里挑一的,别说他们不如你,要搞政治就挤进去啊,光靠嘴啊?

    • 这种问题咱们第一没那水平第二说了不算
      也就瞎掰几下而已
      我的看法是发掘一下民主党派小兄弟的政治潜力让他们分别从不同的角度去监督TG,甚至九大长老里可以留一些名额给民主党派作为党外参与者加入,尤其是政法委和纪委

    • 在中国那么大块平整土地的地方肯定是传统农业垦区,没机械化的话应该有牛马,不至于用人,从生物学和能量投入产出角度来说人的效率也比牛马低不少

  9. 可能正是国家穷困,印度人才会忧国忧民。看看我们中国那些网络暴民……除了喷、黑、开炮嘴,有认真的理解过我们国家的发展是如何来之不易么?唉,我都没话说了。

  10. 阿曼人用诺基亚啊?不跟随,很好啊,哈哈,要是真像这个卖手机的仁兄说的话,这个阿拉伯袍子哥们就不能买苹果了,因为苹果全是中国做的。

  11. 现在不都用安卓机的吗,连我妈都要求我帮她换安卓机了,怎么还买落基亚啊,我的落基亚被贬为备用机了。 😥

  12. 印度必胜,印度人不论男女,不分年龄,不分阶段,不管什么文化水平,都有一个优点——萌!

  13. “女孩在电视上说她明天才能吃饭,因为今天轮到她哥哥吃了!”
    现在想想过去的贫穷,饿的时候一直盼有饭吃,我理解她的心情

  14. 印度网民大都是不明真相,长期被西方洗脑,唯一自豪的是民主,不过现在有越来越多的印度网民开始反思了,反思西方式皿煮是不是适合印度国情,,,

    可以肯定地说,印度如果抱着西方皿煮不放的话,最过30年也就这样半死不活,更不要说想做地区老大,,也就是个梦吧。
    印度如果想抛掉西方的民煮,实行改革的话,只能等西方的价值观崩溃了,才行。。。。

    现在印度看中国的普遍认知是中国没有皿煮,没有自由,独断专行,人民没有自由,不能批评政府,冷酷对待少数民族,人民生活在水深火热中,还说中国是共产国家,中国可不是共产国家啊,晕了,

  15. RaviRe: IsKhan-gress going to allow India to become a Super power?by Ravi (View MyPage) on Jul 25, 2012 11:53 AMI don’t know what you are talking about.India will be economic superpower in next 3 years, no matter whether the world comes to an end.我不知道你在说什么。不管世界末日是否会到来,印度会在未来3年里成为经济超级大国。=========================================================================2012~2015,3年了,这个黑三出来说说话呀!!!对,我忘了,淫都屎潭也警示宇宙超级大国了….