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印媒采访中印战争被俘印度军官:无奈当了俘虏(一)

2012-10-20 19:56 63个评论 字号:

克节郎河(Namkha chu)战役惨败已经过去50年,如今很少有幸存者能够讲述1962年中印战争的故事。克劳德·阿尔皮采访了其中一名叫贝尔的幸存者。贝尔当时是第17伞兵团一名快活的年轻士兵。在接受rediff网采访时,贝尔讲述了东北边境特区(现在叫阿鲁纳恰尔邦)一个高原上悲惨的三个星期,战斗主要发生在一条现今著名的小河——克节郎河。贝尔和士兵仗打得不错,不过最终当了俘虏,被带往xz,在那里吃了几个月的萝卜。本文是一名勇敢的伞兵机枪手在一场给国家造成永久伤害的战争中的故事。

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原文标题:The India-China War, 50 Years Later
原文链接:http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/slide-show-1-we-were-told-that-the-chinese-will-come-in-waves/20121017.htm

1962年中印战争被俘印度士兵贝尔

Fifty years after the debacle of the Namkha chu river, very few survivors remain to tell their side of the story of the 1962 India-China war.

Claude Arpi met one of them, Amar Jit Singh Behl, then a young and ‘carefree’ second lieutenant from the 17 Parachute Field Regiment.

After retiring as a brigadier, Behl lives with his wife in Chandigarh, where he is an avid golfer.

He spoke to Rediff.com about the most harrowing three weeks of his life on a plateau in NEFA (now Arunachal Pradesh), dominating a small, but now famous rivulet, the Namkha chu.

Behl and his men fought well, but were ultimately taken as prisoners of war to Tibet, where for seven months they ate boiled radish.

This is the story of a brave para gunner in a war which inflicted lasting scars on the country.

克节郎河(Namkha chu)战役惨败已经过去了50年,如今很少有幸存者能够讲述1962年中印战争的故事。

克劳德·阿尔皮采访了其中一名叫贝尔的幸存者。贝尔当时是第17伞兵团一名快活的年轻士兵。

以准将身份退役后,贝尔与妻子一起生活在昌迪加尔,在那里他可是个狂热的高尔夫球手。

在接受rediff网采访时,贝尔讲述了东北边境特区(现在叫阿鲁纳恰尔邦)一个高原上悲惨的三个星期,战斗主要发生在一条现今著名的小河——克节郎河。

贝尔和士兵仗打得不错,不过最终当了俘虏,被带往xz,在那里吃了几个月的萝卜。

本文是有关一名勇敢的伞兵机枪手在一场给国家造成永久伤害的战争中的故事。

I joined the elite 17 Parachute Field Regiment on July 2, 1962 at the end of an officer’s course at Agra cantonment. I was put through my probation tests, which included very high standards of physical efficiency tests, tactical and technical tests.

I was then allowed to wear the paratrooper’s prestigious maroon turban. I also completed my parachute basic course which consisted of six day jumps and one night jump. By September 6, 1962, I was a full-fledged paratrooper with a wing on my right sleeve.

I reported to Captain (later Major General) H S Talwar for orders. He commanded the troop called ‘E’ troop, from 52 Parachute Field Battery. I was feeling very proud to be given a chance to go to NEFA with my troops.

On September 24, 1962, we were ordered to join the 7 Infantry Brigade with guns for fire support in the Operation Zone.

Captain Talwar was the troop commander and I was the GPO (Gun Position Officer), looking after the firing of the guns and the overall administration of the guns.

1962年7月2日,在阿格拉兵营结束了军官课程后,我加入了精锐的第17伞兵团。在那里通过了试用考验,包括高标准的体能、战术和技术测试。

随后戴上了享有声望的伞兵栗色头巾。我还完成了伞兵的基本课程,包括6次白天跳伞和一次夜间跳伞。1962年9月6日,我成为了一个完全合格的伞兵,右袖上戴上了翅膀徵章。

我向上尉(后来的少将)塔尔瓦尔汇报。他当时指挥“E”部队。有机会与部队一起前往东北边境特区(NEFA),令我感到非常自豪。

1962年9月24日,我奉命加入第7步兵旅,向战区提供火力支援。

塔尔瓦尔是该部队的指挥官,我是射击阵地指挥官(GPO),负责指挥射击和火炮的全面管理。

The troops with the equipment and 4 guns were loaded in five C 119 Fairchild Packet aircraft and one AN 12 aircraft. Captain Talwar travelled in the latter.

The rest of us moved to NEFA via Lucknow, Barrackpore and Jalpaiguri. On October 3, we reached Tezpur where Captain Talwar received us.

We were given a briefing by Major Narender Singh, the General Staff Officer (GSO 2, OPS) of the 4 Infantry Division. We were told that the Chinese will come in waves, but there was nothing to worry about, because they were not well equipped.

You mean it was known that the Chinese will come in waves?

It was the normal doctrinal tactics of the Chinese in Korea and elsewhere, it is how they proceeded. After the briefing, I was given a sketch of the area.

Not a proper map?

No a blueprint only, a sketch of the Thagla ridge, Dhola Post, Namkha chu (river), etc. We were told that we will go to Tawang by road and later we will be airlifted.

The plans were changed and when we reached Bompu, we were told to come back to be airlifted.

部队连同装备和4挺机枪被装上了5架C119和一架安12飞机。塔尔瓦尔上尉乘坐安12飞机。

我们通过勒克瑙、巴勒克布尔(Barrackpore)和杰尔拜古里(Jalpaiguri)前往东北边境特区。10月3日,我们到达提斯普尔,受到塔尔瓦尔上尉的迎接。

第4步兵师总参谋长纳伦德·辛格少将给我们做了简短作战指示。我们获悉中国人会一波波涌过来,不过装备不良,所以没什么好担心的。

你是说中国人会一波波涌过来是众所周知的?

这是中国人在朝鲜战争和其他战争中的刻板战术,他们就是以这种方式推进。听完了作战指示后,我接到了一份该地区的草图。

没有一张说得过去的地图?

没有,只是塔格拉山脊、多拉哨所和克节郎河的草图。我们接到这样一个命令,即通过公路前往达旺,在那里搭乘飞机前往下一个目的地。

后来计划有变。到达Bompu时,我们奉命返回出发地搭乘飞机。

塔格拉山脊(Thagla ridge)和克节朗河(Namkha chu river)地图

It seems there were two beautiful girls, said to be locals, but later suspected to be Chinese spies, at this place.

Yes, I saw them. Everybody wanted to meet them and have a cup of tea in their teashop.

The next morning we were sent to Diranga near the Bhutan border in an Otter aircraft and the next day, we left for Ziminthang by MI 4 helicopters.

Ziminthang was the tactical headquarters of the 4 Infantry Division. I met Major General Niranjan Prasad, my old brigade commander of the 50 (1) Para Brigade, who was the GOC (General Commanding Officer) of the 4 Infantry Division.

Because he knew me, he called me though I was only a second lieutenant. He asked me to put up my best show. He expected very high standards from his para gunners.

The next morning, with my troops (43 men) we moved on towards our assigned positions, without acclimatisation and porters.

The first night we stayed at Karpola pass (16,000 feet). The next day, we reached Tsangdhar where I was to establish my gun position.

Tsangdhar is a flat plateau dominating the Namkha chu. The Dropping Zone (DZ) was a bit ahead; the idea was to bring the equipment as close as possible from the Namkha chu.

Unfortunately, some of the equipment went into Chinese hands and deep ravines.

那个地方似乎有两名漂亮的女人据称是当地人,不过后来被怀疑是中国间谍。

是的,我看到她们了。每个人都想瞧一眼和在她们茶店喝一杯茶。

第二天早晨,我们搭乘Otter飞机前往不丹边界的Diranga。次日又搭乘MI4直升机向Ziminthang飞去。

Ziminthang是第4步兵师的战术总部。我见到了老上司尼兰詹·普拉萨德少将。

虽然我只是少尉,不过他认识我,所以叫了我名字。他要求我把最好的表现展示出来,对机枪手寄予了非常高的标准。

第二天早上,我们部队(43人)向指定地点开拔。

第一个晚上我们在(海拔16000英尺的)Karpola关口过夜。次日到达章多(Tsangdhar ),并在那里架起了火炮。

章多是一个平坦的高原,俯视克节朗河。空投区域位于前面一点,为的是让装备尽量空投到靠近克节朗河的地方。

不幸地是,一些装备落入了中国人手中和深深的峡谷里。

It means the Chinese were only occupying the Thagla ridge, not places south of the Namkha chu.

Yes, though the 9 Punjab (regiment) was patrolling parts of the Thagla ridge. I established my gun position in two days; it was done by October 8.

Unfortunately, we had recovered only two guns out of four and 80 rounds out of 250 rounds.

It was because the terrain was very tough, there were many trees. But my men did well, they recovered the guns, assembled them, we were ready to launch an attack or defend the 7 Brigade, whatever the scenario would be.

Lieutenant General B M Kaul, the 4 Corps Commander, had planned to take back the Thagla ridge on October 10 (Operation Leghorn).

I don’t know about October 10 or 8, but Pandit Nehru on his way to Sri Lanka made a statement: ‘The Indian troops have been ordered to evict the Chinese; the time is left to the discretion of the Army.’

It is in this connection that General Kaul said that we will evict the Chinese on October 10. His plans eventually collapsed.

这意味着中国人只占领了塔格拉山脊,没有占领克节朗河的南部地区。

是的,不过第9旁遮普团在巡逻塔格拉山脊部分地区。

不幸地是,我们只找到了4门火炮中的两门,250发炮弹中的80发。

原因是地势险峻,树木繁茂。不过我的士兵表现很好,找到了两门火炮,组装了起来。不管事态如何,我们准备发起攻击,保卫第7旅。

考尔中将计划10月10日夺回塔格拉山脊(里窝那行动)。

我不知道是10月10日还是8日,不过尼赫鲁在前往斯里兰卡的途中发表了一项声明:“印度军队已经接到驱逐中国人的命令,现在就看军队的表现了。”

正因如此,考尔将军说我们将在10月10日驱逐中国人。不过计划最终破灭。

When did General Kaul visit Namkha chu?

Around October 8, when I was putting up my guns in Tsangdhar, 2 to 3 hours walking distance from the river. Later General Kaul went back to Delhi because he was not keeping well.

I believe he told the government that the operations should be called off and that Indian troops should only maintain a defensive posture.

But as a junior officer, I did not know about these things.

Did you meet General Kaul?

I met him on October 3 at Tezpur airport. He saw me, called me and ordered me to ensure that I should be in Tsangdhar before October 10. I said: “I will do it, Sir.”

考尔将军什么时候去了克节朗河?

大约10月8日,当时我在离克节朗河2至3小时步行距离的章多架起火炮。由于身体不适,考尔将军随后返回了德里。

我相信他告知了政府应该取消行动,印军应该保持防守态势。

不过作为一名尉官,我不了解这些事情。

你碰到了考尔将军吗?

我10月3日在提斯普尔机场见到了他。他看到后叫了我,并下令要求我确保10月10日之前赶到章多。我说:“一定办到,先生。”

Had he any notion of the terrain and the respective positions?

I was too junior to question him (laughing), I had only nine months of service and he was a very senior officer.

But we completed everything on October 8, collecting the guns, assembling them, digging the gun pits, the ammunition pits, securing the area with machine guns, etc.

We were ready in time. We were 2, 3 hours walk above the Namkha chu.

On October 10 there was a clash in Tsangle (on the north of the river). Orders was that Tsangle should be held at all cost, we did know what it meant (as it was an isolated place).

After October 10, (presumably after General Kaul met with various people in Delhi), it was decided that we should go on a defensive posture.

He must have briefed Pandit Nehru and (then defence minister V K ] Krishna Menon who had selected him for the task (for evicting the Chinese). It was an impossible task.

他对地形和各自立场有何见解?

我级别不够,没资格问他(笑)。只服役了9个月,而他是级别很高的军官。

不过10月8日时一切准备就绪:把找到的火炮组装起来,挖了火炮掩体,弹药掩体,周围用机枪保护。

我们及时完成了备战,所处位置距离克节朗河只有两三小时的步行路程。

10月10日,(克节朗河北岸的)章勒(Tsangle)发生了冲突。章勒据点守军接到的命令是不惜一切代价死守。我们知道这意味着什么(那里可是个孤立据点)。

10月10日后(大概考尔将军会见了德里的各大佬),我方决定继续防守态势。

考尔肯定向尼赫鲁和时任国防部长梅农做了汇报,称这是一个不可能完成的任务。正是梅农选择考尔负责这次(驱逐中国人的)任务。

中印战争:中印双方对阵图

中印双方对阵图

What happened on October 20?

In fact, it started before October 20.

On October 19, with naked eyes, we could see troop movements in certain gaps between Chinese defences.

The Chinese were not trying to hide themselves; in fact they wanted to show: ‘Look we are here in large numbers.’

At night, they lit up fires; their objectives were to prove their strength and show that they had come in the rear of our defence too.

All our telecommunication lines were cut. They had infiltrated through and gone to our rear.

You have to realise that the bridges on the Namkha chu were nothing else but a few logs of trees assembled together. They were not bridges in the real sense.

On the night of October, the message was clear, ‘We are here.’

That day, my nursing assistant died of pulmonary oedema. Before that, in spite of treatment, my two JCOs and one havildar major were evacuated by helicopter due to high altitude sickness. I was left with 38 halvildars and my jawans.

The communications had been cut the night before, and we could not even use the wireless set due to very thick trees along the Namkha chu.

10月20日发生了什么?

实际上是发生在10月20日之前。

10月19日,我们用肉眼就能看到中国军队防守据点缺口之间有大量的部队在运动中。

中国人并没有掩饰,实际上是故意让你看:“瞧,我们在这里,人还不少呢。”

在夜里,他们点起了火,目的是证明他们的兵力优势,表明他们已经迂回到我们的后方。

所有的通信线路都被切断了。他们已经渗透进来,跑到我们后面去了。

你得清楚一点,克节朗河上的桥只是几根木头拼接起来的,并非真正意义上的桥。

10月的一个晚上,中方传达的一个消息很明确:“我们在这里。”

那天,我的助理护士死于肺水肿。此前,尽管有接受治疗,两名JCO和一名军士因高原反应而被直升机接走。只剩下了38名军士和士兵。

通信在前一天晚上就被切断了。由于克节朗河沿岸森林茂密,我们甚至无法使用无线电台。

I had nobody senior to direct me. I could not get through to my commander, Captain Talwar, who was with Brigadier John Dalvi at the Brigade HQ. There was no communication with anybody.

On October 19, I went to Major Panicker who was with the OC (Office Commanding) of the brigade supply depot and asked him: “I don’t know what is happening. I have no communication.”

That night, I had my dinner, checked the sentries and went to sleep. The next morning (October 20) at around 4:30 am, even before I could check my trenches, the shelling started.

At around 9 am, while the shelling was going on, I saw a helicopter coming, but it did not take off. I sent a small patrol of two people to see what had happened. It was about 400 yards down to my gun position.

My patrol came back and said: “There is a Sikh officer with a maroon turban (Major Ram Singh of the Signals) and a non-Sikh pilot (Squadron Leader Vinod Sehgal)”. They were dead.

After one-and-half or two hours, another helicopter came, the pilot went half way through and left.

I later learnt that it was Squadron Leader Arnold Williams; he must have gone back after seeing what was going on. He never landed; he went straight from Bridge II to Ziminthang.

无法联系上指挥官塔尔瓦尔上尉,他和达尔维准将一起在旅总部里。对外联系都中断了。

10月19日,我去找旅供给站的帕尼克,称不知道发生了什么,通信中断了。

那天晚上,我吃过晚饭后查了下哨岗,随后去睡了。第二天早上(10月20日)大约早上4点30分,还没来得及检查战壕,炮击就开始了。

大约早上9点,炮击还在继续,我看到一架直升机飞来,不过落地后没有起飞。我派两人的小巡逻分队前去探个究竟。落地点在我们炮位下400英尺处。

巡逻队回来后说:“有一名戴着栗色头巾的锡克军官和一名非锡克飞行员。”他们都死了。

一个半小时后,另一架直升机飞来。飞到一半就离开了。

我后来获悉飞行员是中队长阿诺德·威廉姆斯。他肯定是看到发生了什么事情就返回了。他没有降落,而是径直从Bridge II飞往Ziminthang。

中印战争:1962年10月初,摄于章多(Tsangdhar ),右二是贝尔

1962年10月初,摄于章多(Tsangdhar ),右二是贝尔

Though we had no communication with anybody, I ordered my guns to start firing direct. There was a prominent area, the Black Rock, where we saw a number of Chinese, we kept firing there.

We fired 20, 30 rounds and kept quiet for a moment. There was one of our mortar batteries not far from us, the havildar major came to see me and ask what was happening. He was hit by an LMG (Light Machine Gun) burst and died.

By that time, troops had started withdrawing from Namkha chu and Tsangle area. These people were telling me, “Don’t move, keep firing” (to protect their retreat). There were officers, JCOs, jawans running away. The brigade had altogether 3,000 people.

I was a young second lieutenant; I held my post, kept firing in direct roll, also using my LMGs and guns to control the situation.

I felt ashamed of those who were running away. I felt proud of my troops, everybody wanted to fight it out.

I will say with pride that at no stage did any of my jawans suggest to me that we should withdraw or tried to run away from the fight, though three jawans had died by this time, they all obeyed me till the end.

They saw a large number of all ranks running past our gun position, but not even one of my men deserted.

虽然外部的一切联系已经中断,我还是下令直接开火。一个突出部有许多中国人,我们一直超那里开火。

打了二三十发,沉静了一会。其中一个迫击炮弹落在我们不远处。军士走过来询问发生什么事情,不过被轻型机枪射杀。

那时,部队已经开始从克节朗河和章勒(Tsangle )撤退。士兵对我说:“别动,继续开火”,(以掩护他们撤退)。逃跑的有军官、JCO、士兵。整个旅总共有3000人。

我是一名年轻的少尉,坚守岗位,轻型机枪和大炮并用,继续开火射击,试图控制局面。

我为那些逃跑的人感到羞耻,为我的部队自豪,我的每个士兵都想决一雌雄。

我可以自豪地说,整个战斗过程中,没有一名士兵提议撤退或者临阵脱逃,虽然有三名士兵阵亡,不过大家一直服从我的命令坚持到最后。

士兵们看到大量各级军官士兵跑过我们的火炮阵地,不过没有一人放弃。

At about 3:30 or 4 pm, we had fired all our rounds and the Chinese were coming in. We had only our LMGs and guns. A large number of them came by waves.

We did whatever we could, but ultimately, we had to surrender.

In this period of 10, 11 hours, I had lost three jawans, two were seriously wounded, 6 or 7 were more lightly wounded.

I saved two seriously wounded soldiers: Gunner Awtar Singh and Operator Chamkaur Singh had got serious splinter hits. I tried to take them to the ADS (Advance Dressing Station), but it was not possible due to shelling.

I told them, “I have a bottle of brandy, I will give you 2 to 3 large doses and pour one on your wounds. Then, keep your tongue between your teeth.”

I cleaned my hands with brandy and pulled out the big shrapnel and tied up a dressing on the wounds. We kept this bandage for one month. Later, the Chinese medical officer treated them in the PoW’s camp; today, they are perfectly alright.

I got a splinter in my leg, but I never bothered about it.

By 4:30 pm, the whole thing was over, before this I reluctantly gave order to dismantle the guns and throw important parts in the nullah, so that they couldn’t be used again.

We were not free soldiers anymore. I was shocked to realise that I was a prisoner of war, but felt consoled that all my jawans had stood by my orders and fought to the last.

The entire picture in the area did not show any signs of organised action, but showed a state of ad hocism.

大约下午3点30分或者4点左右,我们打完了所有炮弹,中国人一波波涌过来。我们只有轻型机枪。

我们竭尽所能,不过最终只好投降。

在10至11小时的战斗时间里,我们损失了3名士兵,2人严重受伤,六七人受轻伤。

我救了两名受重伤的士兵:Gunner Awtar Singh 和 Operator Chamkaur Singh,他们是被碎片击中。我试图把他们带往ADS,不过由于炮击而最终放弃。

我对他们说:“我有一瓶白兰地,可以给你们两三剂量敷伤口。绷带保留了一个月才拆掉。后来,中国医疗人员在战俘营给他们治疗。今天,他们完好如初。

我的腿被碎片击中,不过没有在意。

到下午4点30分,一切结束了。此前,我一直不愿意,不过最终下令拆解火炮,把重要部件扔进流水里,以免中国人收缴利用。

我震惊地意识到大家成为了俘虏,不过让我欣慰的是所有士兵坚决执行了战斗到最后的命令。

此时没有迹象显示该地区还存在有组织的行动…

以下是印度rediff读者的评论:

North east and china
by Guest

If Chinese had not attacked India, North East India would never have been in the minds of Policy makers. It is good for the NE Indians though it hurt the pride of Indian.
Everytime the 1962 war is talk about we always remember the parting words of prime minister Jawaharlal Nehru ” My heart goes to North East”. Indian didn’t give a fight they just gave away NE to the Chinese.

如果中国人没有进攻印度,决策者就永远不会想到东北。虽然伤害了印度人的自尊心,不过对东北印度人有好处。

每次讨论1962年中印战争,我们总是想起尼赫鲁总理的临别赠言:”我的心与东北人民同在“。印度人没有抵抗,而是把东北邦让给中国人。

solute
by lakhmi pathy

Solute to you and your team who stood together and we bow before martyre who gave their life

向你们团结在一起的部队致敬,向献出生命的烈士鞠躬。

My father was part of the war…
by Prakash S

My father was part of the war, he was a sepoy, but he was in the air suply unit. An horrible incident had happend that indian aircraft in which my father was travelling had technical problem and it landing in chinese area, and my father with other members in the plane were caught by the chinese, lucky bcoz of pressure from RUSSIA, they were finally released, he is 74 now, he keeps telling these stories to everyone(espcially kids).

我父亲参加了这场战争。他是一名在空军后勤部队服役的士兵。当时发生了一起可怕事件。我父亲乘坐的飞机出了技术故障,后来降落在中国。父亲和其他机组人员被中国人俘虏。很幸运,在俄罗斯的压力之下,他们最终获得释放。父亲现在74岁了。他一直把这些故事讲给大家听(特别是小孩)。

China & Sri Lanka
by N Rajendran

India has to re-think about the Sri Lanka who is too much leaning towards china. Almost Sri Lanka is in the hands of China. The intention behind this shuld be realised..

印度必须重新考虑严重倒向中国的斯里兰卡。这个国家几乎落入了中国手中。应该认清其背后意图…

war has changed
by Amit Kumar

man to man the chinese soldier is no match for indian soldier. but today’s battlefield is not about man-to-man, its about technology and cash.

一挑一的话,中国士兵不是印度士兵的对手。不过现代战争不是人对人,而是技术和资金的较量。

原创翻译:三泰虎 http://www.santaihu.com

Re: war has changed
by Nature Cool
chinees soldier are brutals, thier trainning is much more tougher than indian soldier

中国士兵残酷无情,接受的训练比印度士兵的苛刻得多。

Re: war has changed
by marion
hehe….low IQguy….it is proved again…:D

呵呵…再次证明你是低智商家伙…. 😀

haha
by some one

Indians will probably loose again against the Chinese in war. Only the Indian armed forces have discipline. Civilians and especially the government people and politicians have total indiscipline and absence of any sense of loyalty to country or countrymen. They have total absence of conscience or basic humanity or honesty.

Chinese will win because they are a totally disciplined country, army, civilians, politicians etc. It is not a democracy, but in war what matters is discipline and loyalty rather than freedom of speech.

中印若再战,印度可能又会失败。印度只有武装部队有纪律性。平民毫无纪律性,对国家不忠诚,特别是公务员和政客。他们缺乏良知、基本人性和诚实。

中国军队、平民和政客训练有素,所以中国人会获胜。中国不是皿煮国家,不过战争中最重要的是纪律和忠诚,而不是言论自由。

Salute
by sri

We salute our brave soldiers such as Brigadier Behl!

我们向贝尔这样的勇敢士兵致敬!

The real background is that China is the ONLY country that
by Steven Komakula

defeated ALL western countries at the same time in Korea. But Nehru wanted to fight China. He was drunk and insane.

真实背景是中国是唯一在朝鲜同时击败所有西方国家的国家。但尼赫鲁喝醉了,精神错乱,想与中国打仗。

Re: The real background is that China is the ONLY country that
by Ramesh Pillai
Krishna Menon the defence minister was a communist and he wanted China to win. He sabotaged the war and ensured that soldiers never got what was required.

国防部长梅农是gcd,想让中国获胜。他破坏战争,确保士兵不能获得所需装备。

Re: The real background is that China is the ONLY country that
by aaaa
China defeated all the western countries … You must be drunk and insane not Nehru…

”中国击败了所有西方国家…”

尼赫鲁没醉,肯定是你喝醉了,精神错乱…

Re: The real background is that China is the ONLY country that
by sri
I dont think they defeated the US in Korea. It was a stalemate. Unfortunately, Gen McArthur was reigned in by Truman. Otherwise, the chinese may have been brushed aside. The distinction of defeating 3 major world powers including China goes to Vietnam. China is not what it is made out to be. They have not proved themselves in any major war yet.

我认为中国没有在朝鲜击败美国,战争陷入了僵局。不幸地,麦克阿瑟将军受杜鲁门控制。否则,中国人可能会被无视。击败包括中国在内的三个主要世界大国的荣誉归于越南。中国从来没有在大战中证明自己,并非如其所称那样。

real truth..
by gaurang patel

real truth was our army men were actually fighting AK-47 with their 303 rifles. they were not having proper uniform to defend from cold also at that time. Also during Kargil same thing happened. We Indians never learn from our past mistakes & we will have to pay heavy in terms of security if still we don’t change ourselves.

真相是我们士兵拿着303步枪与拿着AK-47的中国士兵打仗。士兵没有抗寒的体面制服。同样的事情在卡吉尔战争出现。印度人从来不从错误中吸取教训。如果不做出改变,我们会在安全方面付出沉重代价。

Re: real truth..
by piri
The Chinese did not have AK 47s in 1962, at least not in any significant numbers.

Their real advantages were strategic and tactical as well as numerical superiority. They controlled most of the vantage points from which they could launch effective operations. The Indians were also outdone tactically on the field.

中国人1962年时没有AK47,至少没有大量装备。

中国人的真正优势表现在战略战术上,还有数量优势。控制了大多数有利据点,可以发起有效行动。在战场上,印度人的战术也输给中国人。

HAD INDIRA, RAJIV, SONIA, RAHUL NOT IN POLITICS NO ONE BLAME NEHR
by Kabeer

If Indira Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi, Sonia Gandhi and Rahul Gandhi didn’t enter politics at all, today no one would have blamed Nehru for all the ills of India.

It is surprising how people castigate their heros and judge them not based on what they have done but based on what their offspring had done in the subsequent years of his death

要是英迪拉甘地、拉吉夫甘地、索尼娅甘地和拉胡尔甘地没有从政,今天就不会有人把印度的一切问题归咎于尼赫鲁。

令人意外地是,人们不是通过英雄的成就来评判,而是根据死后他后代的所作所为来谴责他。

nehru is the
by sarfarosh

real hero.

尼赫鲁是真正的英雄。

bravo
by sarfarosh

to chacha nehru for fighting bravely against the chinese

好极了,尼赫鲁勇敢地与中国人战斗。

Re: bravo
by Raghu Ram
my foot, Nehru was the villain of the 1962 debacle,

没这回事,尼赫鲁是1962年惨败的罪犯。

Re: bravo
by Venugopalan
chacha was probably pushed by the yankees to fight the chinese..nehru was a man of peace

尼赫鲁可能受美国佬唆使去打中国人…他可是爱好和平人士。

*
by Pakka Pakistani

ultimate thing is who won the battle. these indians when they win boast and when they loose make selfdabba.

最重要的是谁赢得了战斗。印度人获胜了就拼命吹,失败了就…

Re: *
by sarfarosh
guess pak is still not in the civilised world. always shooting the innocent with the help of taliban

我认为巴基斯坦还没步入文明世界,总是借助塔利班之手射杀无辜人民。

Military
by praphul kotnis

Please dont join military till corruption ends from our politicians

在杜绝政客腐败前,请不要参军。

china & srilanka
by mahesh v

China is investing massively in Srilanka. A key strategic position that India missed even though it is so close to India.

Its a warning !

中国大规模投资斯里兰卡。该国地处战略位置,虽然离印度很近,不过被忽视。

这是警告!

Indo China war
by Rajagopalan

We salute you sir. But for Nehru, this war could well avoided.But with the situation and avaialble resources you fought to keep India’s pride.

先生,我们向你致敬。要不是尼赫鲁,这场战争本可以避免。就以当时的处境和可支配资源来看,你是为了印度的尊严而战。

Re: Indo China war
by ANKIT GOYAL
NEHRU WAS A COMPLETE IDIOT

尼赫鲁是个十足傻瓜。

NEHRU WANTED FRIENDLY RELATIONS WITH CHINA. HOW CAN HE AGGRESSOR?
by Kabeer

It has become a fashion to blame Nehru for everything that had happened in 1962 China war.

Nehru was unwilling for a war.

Nehru had studied history in Cambridge and know a whole lot about war that had preceded a few decades ago; First world war and the Second World War.

But in Parliament, many idiots who have no idea rose up and giving inflammatory speeches urging the Indian Govt to take stringent action against the Chinese.

When these people are speaking Nehru buried his chin in his palms and watched helplessly at their gross ignorance.

Restraint was depicted in Parliament as cowardice.

Nehru all along wanted friendly relationship with China. How come Nehru be the aggressor?

把1962年中印战争的一切过错归咎于尼赫鲁已经成为一种时尚。

尼赫鲁不愿意打仗。

他在剑桥大学研读历史,熟悉几十年前发生的一战和二战。

但是在议会里,许多对战争没有概念的傻瓜站起来发表煽动性演讲,督促印度政府对中国人采取严厉行动。

这些人发表演讲时,尼赫鲁双手托着下巴,无助地看着这些无知者。

克制在议会里被形容为软弱。

尼赫鲁一直想与中国建立友好关系。他怎么会成为挑衅者?

原创翻译:三泰虎 http://www.santaihu.com

 

Re: NEHRU WANTED FRIENDLY RELATIONS WITH CHINA. HOW CAN HE AGGRES
by NIRMAL BALIA
in 1962 NEHRU was very ill and was not able to take decision this is fact and in last years he almost was shade of himself

1962年,尼赫鲁病得很重,无法正确做决定,这是事实。在最后几年里,他生活在阴影中。

Raghu Ram
Re: NEHRU WANTED FRIENDLY RELATIONS WITH CHINA. HOW CAN HE AGGRES
by Raghu Ram
That’s the mistake of chacha in the aspiration of a Nobel price. He believed the crook chinese but refused to take the advice of the Army and Sartar Patel. The price was paid by the Nation.

尼赫鲁渴望获得诺贝尔和平奖,酿成了这样的错误。他相信中国骗子,拒绝接受军队和帕特尔的建议。代价由国家买单。

Re: Re: NEHRU WANTED FRIENDLY RELATIONS WITH CHINA. HOW CAN HE AG
by Kabeer
If Nehru was aspiring for Nobel Peace prize how would he declare a war and then win peace prize?

Listen to all the speeches made by many parliamentarians in the archives of Loksabha; then you will understand who wanted a war and who didnt

如果尼赫鲁渴望获得诺贝尔和平奖,那么宣战后又怎能获得和平奖?

人民院档案里有许多议员发表的演讲记录,可以去听听看。你会发现谁想要战争,谁不想要。

第二部分:印媒采访中印战争被俘印度军官:战俘营生活(二)

印称中印战争粉碎印自信 从此只能比巴基斯坦

“2012年的印度已经不是1962年的印度,今天的我们有能力保卫每一寸国土。”印度国防部长安东尼18日表达的这份自信,昨天被视作献给一个重要日子的礼物。在印度媒体的记述中,50年前的10月20日,印中在海拔4000米以上的喜马拉雅山区爆发激战,印度以“一个月阵亡3770人”的代价输掉了“天堂门口的战斗”。

印度学者马汗德拉则在《新海峡时报》上撰文说,1962年战争给印度留下的伤痛比印度历史上经受的任何外来侵略、军事失败和殖民扩张都大,这创伤至今没有愈合。

印度《克什米尔时报》文章援引那场战斗后做了陆军参谋长的乔杜里的话说,“我们以为和中国人下的是象棋,没想到很快变成俄罗斯轮盘赌”。拉迪夫新闻网说,战败粉碎了尼赫鲁和整个印度的自信,1962年后,以前那个曾经什么都和中国对比,被认为与中国争夺亚洲的国家,只能和弱小的巴基斯坦比来比去了。

“50年过去了,印度仍在气恼。”法新社19日如此形容新德里当下的氛围。文章说,虽然打了胜仗的中国在停火后主动退回双方开战前的实际控制线,但那场战争至今仍在中印关系中起着关键作用,不安情绪依旧主宰着印度,就像印度学者所说,“我们永远不会忘记那场战争,永远不会忘记中国曾如此深入我们的领土。 (环球网)

友荐云推荐
  1. 印度人啊。。
    这只是一场小规模的战争。。
    中国人只出了3分力。。
    这么多年了还一直耿耿于怀。。
    。。有点出息好不好!!。。。。。。。。。。。。
    。。。。。沙发吗?第一次啊!哈哈

    • 我没记错的话
      这场战争中国参战了6万多人,印度防守1万多人。
      印度人被歼灭约5000多人,被俘获4000多人,失踪1000多,、
      中国可以说是全胜,印度人跑掉的都没几个。
      损失方面,中国军队阵亡722人,受伤约1500人吧。
      这种战果现在看都是对印度军人的绝大讽刺。

      • 实际前线也就3万人 还有3-5万的民工负责后勤 但问题来了,咱们前线的3万人是边防军啊~~~不是野战军~~~印度那边可是他们自己最最牛掰的山地师正规军,全新全套的装备。
        就这样,竟然溃败了,专业山地师被边防部队给打溃败了不说,还差点被边防军攻到首都了,当时周总理都惊了=.=万万没想到印度人如此之弱,本来准备调野战军的事儿都省了。
        但更让人受不了的~~~竟然还是印度主动找上门进攻的…弱死了简直…这帮住在南亚的非洲人。

  2. 印度人到现在还是认为中国是靠所谓“人海战术”赢的么,给自己的无能找借口吧。搞的好像虽败犹荣似地。

  3. 三哥这几把国家,为了刷存在感,各种不要脸的话都能说得出来,简直了,怎么咱们周边都是这种货?棒子,三哥,湾湾成天yy,简直了,你要一巴掌下去,立马老实了。 这篇文章更加加深了我对印度是个劣等文明的判断

  4. 为什么英国统治了印度几百年,阿三没怨气,和我们发生一次小规模冲突,却说对他们造成了永远的伤害。真搞不懂?

    • 你要联系当年印度的情势,就明白三哥的心情了
      当时,美苏冷战.欧洲已经烂了,西方国家对印度又有好感,但同时苏联又对印度大力支持,想让印度搞定阿富汗和巴基斯坦(这二个国家当时是美国支援的,专门盯在中亚恶心苏联的)印度当时可是自认第三世界老大的.周边的一个可以抗衡他的国家都没有.印度还在做着成为继欧美和苏联后第三大国际势力的美梦,可惜中国一巴掌就把印度打得露出原形,整个国家的精气神都没了.然后就一直要死不活的直到现在.所以这场战争虽小,但它可是打没了印度好不容易才找回的骨气

      • “1234”这个名字好啊,我的QQ 空间就是用着名字的,应该说没改过空间名! 😆 大家都懂的虽然没有了沙发,但是”印度必胜”还是了占的。 😀

  5. 唉,主要是中国太狠了,没顾得上印度人的面子。中国古话说打人不打脸,确实狠了点。 :mrgreen:
    不过话说回来,印度人自己把脸凑上来,怪谁? ❓

    • 还有一个是战争开始,就所谓被轻机枪干掉的,这在前方部队大规模溃退前。近四十人的一个排,如果没算错的话,这是孤立小股敌人,追歼已溃退敌军才是王道。我都能想出来,我方指挥员不可能想不到。神马坚守到四点,没主动攻击罢了。
      就总死亡三人,这不是有战斗意志的阵地攻防战表现,不管中外。坚决抵抗,给对方以杀伤,对方必然会谨慎,死人才是没威胁的人,看我军在越南战争中表现就能看出。
      总地来说,没经验的军官在对方没主动攻击情况下,被流弹按倒三个人。恐惧心理下,盲目射击,很快就弹尽粮绝。在对方收拾战场时,主动投降。

  6. 在10至11小时的战斗时间里,我们损失了3名士兵,2人严重受伤,六七人受轻伤。

    我救了两名受重伤的士兵:Gunner Awtar Singh 和 Operator Chamkaur Singh,他们是被碎片击中
    ==============================
    如前文印度人自己说的,死亡三人,重伤二人,六七人轻伤。其中这重伤二人还是这傻逼指挥官自己就的。这是我军高原地区阵地攻防吗。个人怎么看,流炮击中简易野战工事造成的伤亡还差不多。

    • 他们开炮了,但不一定杀过中国人,你滴明白?
      一听见炮响,手忙脚乱像无头苍蝇一样盲目射击,很快弹药耗尽,举手投降的劣等印度低级军官吹牛逼而已。他要是一直抵抗了十几个小时能只阵亡3人?

    • 三哥作为殖民地,的确曾经为宗主国出国兵,但仅仅负担二战中并不出名的战役。
      人们何曾听闻此前印度人的精彩战例?所以,别把给英国人打下手的殖民兵看成高素质军人。

  7. 天,多么“可敬”的一个“英雄传说”。40个人,面对仍然使用把美国人赶回38线的“原始战术”PLA,居然仅仅付出了3人毙命的代价就集体被俘……
    这个英雄故事中,如果不是这位三哥英雄把射击方向搞错了,那一定就是PLA仅仅用木棒就擒获了所有人。
    这么愚蠢的谎言,居然下面还有那么多三哥感佩涕零。

  8. 可能正常战争对于中国人来说 是个局部小仗 但是对于三哥 可能就像是晚晴的压片战争一样 一下把自己敲的原形毕露

  9. 62年 这种事情 太小了。将来1000年后,我们的后台谈论这场战役,就跟当年王玄策拉着吐蕃藩国的军队俘虏北印度国王向太宗献捷一样,轻描淡写而已。没啥好谈论的。 😆 😆 😆

  10. 大部队都在撤退,为啥就你们40人不撤?就是为了等着投降?这货当了俘虏,最后还升到了准将。。。

  11. 印度人自大的表现所造成的恶果,没想到教训对它们如此深刻,不象越南人从不吸取教训。我也觉得印度归还了中国土地后,两国永远不会再战,前提是印度需归还属于中国的土地。

  12. 中印冲突起因:印度的前进政策,不顾中方边境未划分的警告,单方面划定界线,推进建立据点,至中国再三警告不顾,终于,冲突开始。
    中印冲突经过与结果:中国边防军人竟然能如如无人之境,尽管我们但是国力如此贫乏,连我们都吃惊于印度人如此之“强”的战斗力,一边倒的战果,中国主动退回。
    印度人对战争可耻的看法:1、中国背信弃义,偷袭。2、中国人海战术。3、如果怎么怎么样,那么印度就赢了。呵呵。
    针对上文的说的:“中国在炫耀人海战术”。你去看看中国人在朝鲜的战争,一个是灯火管制的,白天不行军,全部夜里行军,二个是中国军人如此多的进入朝鲜,隐蔽的连美国佬那么多的飞机都不知道中国军人进入了朝鲜,发现后,还以为是小股兵力。真没有想到,这样的印度军人,能成为准将。呵呵

  13. 我就不明白,为什么越南人和印度人总以为中越战争是越南赢了。维基百科(相对公正)认为虽然中国损失比越南惨重,但结果影响是中国有利。我糊涂了?

  14. 中国打印度,不过一个月;日本侵华,8年…印度人就如此不能忘记,我们却要选择放下.
    谁是更有智慧的民族,更有前途,一目了然.

  15. 我不知道印度是哪里来的那么坚定的自信心 整天和天朝比什么 历史上不行 现在也不行 他到底比什么呢 就一个佛教传到了中国就以为中国被他们统治了吗 搞笑的不得了 真恨在古代没有吞了印度

  16. 抗日和中印战争完全不一样、我们差不多半个国家被扫荡了、印度才是死了几千人、对比中国的伤亡、印度输了几千人根本一提、只是印度人现在在意淫自己有能力战胜中国罢了

  17. 感觉印度人的逻辑很有问题,或者故意装的,如果是侵略战争,打赢了,而且是大胜,胜利者会撤回到开战前所在位置吗?想一下1962如果是印度胜利,那他会撤回到开战前的位置吗? 到底谁想打的一目了然。

    • 事事是那会中国根本没国力跟印度开战,刚饿死三千万人,台湾还嚷着反攻大陆,而且跟印度打的并不是主力而是边防军,谁会那时候跟印度开展,脑子抽了才会想两线作战

  18. 呵呵,印度我求求你们了,别再想着中印再战了,给美国人当炮灰一点价值都没有,好好的和中国人做生意赚小钱钱,过着幸福的生活多好啊?

  19. 我也想不明白,中美在朝鲜较量以后,美国带领的联合国军都没占到便宜,印度人当时是怎么想的弄出个什么前进政策?有人说印度在华使馆了解到当时的自然灾害,中国政府可能在那种情况下不会跟印度开战,所以才弄出个什么前进战略。

  20. 如果中国像打朝鲜战争那样打中印战争,印度会败的更惨,毕竟那个时代的中国人全都一心一意为国效力,感觉战争是促进名族发展的重要部分,当一个国家和平太久了,贪腐什么的问题就都来了,只有战争才会使一个国家奋发向上。

  21. “在10至11小时的战斗时间里,我们损失了3名士兵,2人严重受伤,六七人受轻伤”阿三真会说谎而且脸不会红(因为黑了)你妹你以为中国士兵是吃素的,打你小三一对三那是没有一点问题!10小时你最少也得死1000个人!

  22. 那些都是瞎说,中国军队虽说伤亡也惨重,但是越南边界城镇那可是被没了很多,惨那肯定是越南惨的太多了,可是中国人就是低调从来不愿意说自己赢得多厉害,毕竟中国是成年人了说话做事都低调和修养,而越南不同越南人就像小孩子一样本来自己输的很厉害他们却要说自己赢了,本来是中国军队自动撤退(战略撤退)达到目的了就退了

  23. 所以我们国家还是需要能有硬骨头的将领指挥,如果只是纸上谈兵,那真是没救了,老一辈革命军人、政治家眼光独到,值得我们学习。。。三哥至今活在自己想象中,无法反省啊

  24. Re: bravoby Venugopalanchacha was probably pushed by the yankees to fight the chinese..nehru was a man of peace尼赫鲁可能受美国佬唆使去打中国人…他可是爱好和平人士。—–看来印度人也不都是傻子

  25. 真相是我们士兵拿着303步枪与拿着AK-47的中国士兵打仗。士兵没有抗寒的体面制服。同样的事情在卡吉尔战争出现。印度人从来不从错误中吸取教训。如果不做出改变,我们会在安全方面付出沉重代价。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。这你妈是在打仗大哥,叫你去旅游的吗