从这里了解印度人对中国的看法

北京艺术展播放古吉拉特邦大屠杀短片

2012-07-25 21:02 17个评论 字号:

正当印度古吉拉特邦代表团在中国寻找贸易和商业机会时,北京一场艺术展播放了高德拉暴乱中对msl的暴行短片。高德拉视频在伦敦蛇形画廊和挪威奥斯陆现代艺术博物馆组织的“印度公路”画廊上放映。此次艺术展由印度驻华大使苏杰生揭幕,包含Tejal Shah拍摄的一部短片。该片讲述的是古吉拉特邦高德拉暴乱中对msl的暴行,以及该事件对印度皿煮的影响。电视屏幕旁边放着一个附带描述:“《爱我的印度》是对msl屠殺的回应…”

原文标题:Beijing showcases Gujarat carnage in art exhibition
原文链接:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/china/Beijing-showcases-Gujarat-carnage-in-art-exhibition/articleshow/15115065.cms

2002年古吉拉特邦暴乱(Gujarat riots)

BEIJING: Even as an Indian delegation from Gujarat is exploring trade and business opportunities in China, an art exhibition in Beijing is showcasing atrocities on Muslims during the Godhra riots through a video presentation. The Godhra video is being screened at the ‘Indian Highway’ gallery organized by Serpentine Gallery, London , and the Astrup Feamley Museum of Modern Art, Oslo , Norway.

The exhibition – the Indian ambassador to China S Jaishankar inaugurated it – contains a short film by Tejal Shah discussing the atrocities on Muslims in Gujarat during the Godhra riots, and its effect on Indian democracy. An accompanying description put up next to the TV monitor showing the video says, “The video piece ‘I love my India’ addresses responses to a Muslim genocide…”

北京:正当印度古吉拉特邦代表团在中国寻找贸易和商业机会时,北京一场艺术展播放了高德拉暴乱中对msl的暴行短片。高德拉视频在伦敦蛇形画廊和挪威奥斯陆现代艺术博物馆组织的“印度公路”画廊上放映。

此次艺术展由印度驻华大使苏杰生揭幕,包含Tejal Shah拍摄的一部短片。该片讲述的是古吉拉特邦高德拉暴乱中对msl的暴行,以及该事件对印度皿煮的影响。电视屏幕旁边放着一个附带描述:“《爱我的印度》是对msl屠殺的回应…”

“Take a gun and kill. That is the trend. There is no democracy left,” one of the persons being interviewed in the film is shown as saying. “The corrupt government is ruining it all,” a woman is heard saying in the film, which has curiously been approved and tolerated by Indian officials in different countries.

Another exhibit shows how foreign oil companies like ONGC and Indian Oil are threatening China’s energy security. The art work by famous Chinese artist Wang Mai reflects Beijing’s growing intolerance to ONGC’s exploration work in South China Sea. The Chinese foreign ministry has repeatedly asked India to withdraw from oil exploration in islands disputed by China and Vietnam.

“拿起枪杀人。这就是趋势。皿煮已经彻底消失了,”短片里有一个人在接受采访时称。“腐败政府毁了一切,”短片里一名妇女如是说。令人奇怪地,这样的说法被身在各国的印度官员认可和容忍了。

另一个展示区展示印度石油天然气公司(ONGC)和印度石油等外国石油公司是如何威胁中国能源安全的。著名的中国艺术家王迈的艺术品反应了北京越来越无法容忍ONGC在南海的勘探工作。中国外交部三番五次要求印度撤出中越有争议岛屿的石油勘探。

Wang’s work is a huge structure representing an offshore oil drilling platform in the sea with signs carrying names of foreign oil companies including ONGC, which are participating in the exploration and drilling in the disputed islands.

It is being exhibited in the room adjacent to the halls containing the exhibits for the ‘Indian Highway’ gallery at Ullens Center of Contemporary Art in Beijing’s famous 798 Art District.

The ‘Indian Highway’ gallery also initially contained a video critical of the situation in Nagaland. But it was withdrawn following protests by some Beijing-based Indians, who felt that citizens of Communist China would not appreciate India’s tradition of free political discourse.

王迈的作品描绘了一个海上石油钻井平台,上面标有包括ONGC在内的外国石油公司的名字。这些公司在争议岛屿附近参与石油勘探和开采。

王迈作品被展示在北京著名的798艺术区尤伦斯当代艺术中心的“印度公路”画廊展示区所在大厅附近的房间。

“印度公路”画廊起初也包括一部强烈批评那加兰邦形势的视频。在北京的一些印度人认为共禅中国的公民不会欣赏印度自由政治演讲的传统,他们随后发起抗议,所以这部视频后来被撤掉了。

(注:2002年,印度古吉拉特邦发生了严重的印度教徒和msl之间的暴力冲突。有1000多人在冲突事件中丧生,其中大部分是msl。这次冲突是由于一列满载印度教朝圣者的火车遭袭击而引发的)

以下是印度网民的评论:

farhan (Guwahati)
Is there a Gujarat Holocaust memorial on the lines of nazi holocaust memorial? Independent India worst anti muslim pogrom that killed 10,000 muslims should be highlighted so that the memory is kept alive for future generations. Any NGO or industrial house can sponsor this kind of patriotic venture that showcases the burning issues we have in our country.
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是否有类似纳粹大屠殺纪念馆的古吉拉特大屠殺纪念馆?印度独立以来最严重的反msl暴乱造成了1万名msl被杀,应该突出强调以便后代能够铭记。NGO或者实业家族可以赞助此类爱国事业,以展示我们国家的紧要问题。

Shiva (USA) replies to farhan 1 day ago
WoW! When u terrorists kill on daily basis peaceful Hindus then it is not a holocaust. What do u expect Hindus to keep mum all the time when u terrorists do your dirty act in Burka. Oh! Yes So far China also killed hundreds muslims in Xinjiang Province. U know what is the problem with muslims? When they migrate from Desert of Sahara to any country they always mingle nicely with the oboriginal. When they outgrow in numbers by giving birth as piglets then they claim that part as their own just like Kashmir & Xinjiang. So wake up and look deep inside the dirty heart of yours and then say Hindus did wrong. It was you muslims you killed innocent Hindu pilgrims on train and then it was your turn to take back the reaction. Live & let live..if you follow this rule whole world will be peaceful but u terrorists dont want peace in any part of the world.
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哇!你们恐怖分子天天杀害爱好和平的印度教徒,然后说这不是大屠殺。你们恐怖分子穿着长袍干着肮脏的勾当,却一直期望印度教徒保持沉默。哦!迄今为止,中国也在xjΧΧ了几百名msl。你知道msl的问题所在之处吗?当他们从撒哈拉沙漠移居到其他国家时,他们与土著居民和睦往来。当他们拼命繁殖并人数赶超后,他们就声称部分地区是他们的,比如克什米尔和xj就是如此。所以,醒醒吧,往深处看你肮脏的心灵,然后再来说印度教徒做错了。正是你们msl杀害了火车上的无辜印度教朝圣者,然后才受到报复的。让自己活,也让别人活…如果你们能遵守这个规则,那么整个世界会一片和平。但是你们恐怖分子不想让世界的任何地方归于和平。

Sahil (Amdavad) replies to farhan
Farhan, You got your facts wrong. It is not 10,000 muslims but actually all the muslims living in Gujarat were killed. There is not a single muslim alive in Gujarat today. Before giving incorrect numbers, please get your facts right. How dare you understate the attrocities against muslims?
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Farhan,你搞错了。不是1万名msl被杀,实际上是古吉拉特邦的所有msl被杀。古吉拉特邦今天一个msl都没有。请弄清事实,然后再给出正确数据。你怎么有胆量去低估反msl的暴行?

Subhash (Delhi) replies to Sahil
Are you a hindu. How come you alive now and several of you indulging in Smuggling there.
Agree (1)Disagree (0)Recommend (0)

你是印度教徒?你怎么现在还活着。你们中的一些人在那里从事走私。

Pasupathy (Hyderabad) replies to Subhash 1 day ago
You have not understood his sarcasm

你没有理解他的讽刺意味。

Jayesh Shah (Ratlam) 1 day ago
We need to counter China’s aggressive trade practices such as objecting to ONGC’s oil exploration and so on. However, there is nothing wrong to show Gujarat Carnage in any art exhibition and I salute Tejal Shah for such a patriotic work. Jai Gujarat and Jai Hind.
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我们需要反制中国的激进贸易行为,比如中国反对ONGC的石油勘探等。然而,在任何一场艺术展上展示古吉拉特大屠殺并没有什么错,我向完成这样一个爱国杰作的Tejal Shah表示致敬。古吉拉特邦胜利,印度胜利。

b suresh babu (bangalore ) 1 day ago
ha ha ha what mockery of democracy in India, world over weapons are being supplied by Europeans the Americans the Russians and Chinese why don’t they stop manufacturing and selling weapons to bring peace to the world
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哈哈,印度皿煮是个笑柄。世界上的武器是欧洲人、美国人、俄罗斯人和中国人提供的。为什么他们不停止生产和贩卖武器,从而给世界带来和平(译文来源:三泰虎)。

j k sinha (Hyderabad) 1 day ago
I don’t know if Indian ambassador protested or walked out but for sure Govt. of India will be delighted. China has resorted to this act only to divert attention from its atrocities on people of Tibet and humiliate Indians. Earlier, they had shown a DOG doing yoga. How would our government react if they showed Anti sikh riots which killed more people than any other riot in this country.
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如果印度大使抗议或者愤而离开,我不知道结果会如何,但是印度政府会高兴。中国诉诸此举只是为了羞辱印度人和转移人们对其在xz暴行的注意力。早先,他们展示了一条在做瑜伽的狗。如果他们展示印度暴乱中杀人最多的反锡克教徒暴乱,那么我们政府会做何反应呢?

Hemant Sane (Mumbai)
yes it was necessary. The muslims were taught a bloody lesson of their life. they simple abused and cornered the tolerant hindu community for last 60 years in independent India, riots for no reason, holding hindus to ransom. Once they were taught what happens when Hindus retaliate they now understand that living peacefully is the only solution. if rioting was the way to teach them a lesson, then let it be. No riots in gujarat since 2002. It was a necessary evil.
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是的,这个有必要。印度教徒给了msl一个血腥的教训。印度独立60年以来,msl辱骂宽容的印度教徒,并把他们逼入绝境。他们毫无理由的发动暴乱,挟持印度教徒并勒索赎金。一旦印度教徒报复后,他们吸取了教训,知道和平相处是唯一出路。如果暴乱是让他们吸取教训的方法,那就让暴乱发生吧。自从2002年以来,古吉拉特邦没有发生任何暴乱。印度教徒的那场暴乱是必要之恶。

Green n Gold (Yarra) 1 day ago
Ex Aussi Prime minister Kevin Rudd was right about chinese….they are nothing but a bunch of rat fu*kers.
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前任澳大利亚总理陆克文对中国人的看法是对的…他们什么也不是,只是一群老鼠。

AD (Mumbai) 1 day ago
But our Govt can’t do anything as it is against the Gujarat CM and secondly we have no guts to challenge China.We are a third rate stupid non-violent people.
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但是我们政府无能为力,因为对古吉拉特邦首席部长不利。其次,我们没有勇气挑战中国。我们是一个三流的非暴力愚蠢民族。

Milind Wakhale (Vadodara) replies to AD
Not non-violent. Rather cowards.
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不是非暴力,而是懦弱。

Chanakya (Patna) replies to AD 1 day ago
You missed the point. The film was put up by one Tejal Shah and inaugrated by the Indian Ambassador! China had nothing to do with it.
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你没有抓住要点。短片是Tejal Shal提供的,揭幕者是印度大使!中国跟这个毫无关联。

Shubh (Beijing) replies to Chanakya 1 day ago
Thanks for posting this Chanakya… I am shocked the my fellow brothers are not paying attention to understanding the news but just ready to fight on any news… I am in Beijing since almost 2 years and have never faced any hatred by Chinese people.
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Chanakya,谢谢你发表此条评论…令我震惊地是我的兄弟没有注意理解新闻,而是准备为了争吵而争吵…我在北京呆了几乎两年了,从来没有遇到过中国人的仇视。

acvrm.delhi (delhi)
The easiest way to embarrass the Chinese is by having an exhibition on the various massacres in china. The Tibetian community in exile will be happy to organize it.
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让中国人难堪的最简单方法是举行一场展示中国各种ΧΧ的展览。流亡藏人社区会乐意组织这样的展览。

Rajguru (delhi)
Behind the exhibition ,obviously Indian Government is there, playing self abusing game. In the process of maligning Gujarat , Congress is maligning India.
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此次展览的背后明显是印度政府在操纵。印度政府是在玩自虐游戏。国大党在诽谤古吉拉特邦的过程中诽谤了印度。

donut.dodo (mumbai)
this is no different from what usa does. usa used the same tactics to project all nations evil first then go to war to gather public support. so that their actions dont get widespread public displeasure.
Agree (10)Disagree (2)Recommend (1)

这与美国的做法无异。美国使用同样的策略,首先宣传各国的邪恶之处,然后为开战获得公众支持。他们的行动因此不会招致普遍的公众不满。

Hrishikesh (Surat) 1 day ago
Who cares about Modi? I want to know if Indian Muslims will accept our heartfelt apologies for the crimes that took place in 2002. Just as an equal citizen of India I want to say from the bottom of my heart with utmost sincerity, we feel very sad that we allowed something so terrible and evil to happen. I just want to say if this message can reach even one Indian Muslim who is angry about what happened then please don’t judge all Gujaratis by one man and his actions. We are human beings and even I get tears in my eyes when I see actual video of riot victims of 2002 whatever the religion. We should stop being divided by politicians and be united. Fight hate not with hate but with a positive message of peace, progress and prosperity.
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谁会在意穆迪?我想知道,对于2002年发生的罪行,印度msl是否会接受我们的真心道歉。作为印度的平等公民,我最真挚地发自内心的表示:我们为所发生的一些恐怖和邪恶事件而感到非常伤心。我想说的是这条消息是否能传达到每一名对此事生气的印度msl。请不要以一个人的行动来评判所有古吉拉特人。我们是人类。当我观看2002年暴乱的视频时,我甚至流泪了。我们不应该被政客分裂,应该团结起来。不要以仇恨对抗仇恨,而是要以和平、进步和繁荣的积极信息来对待。

Vishnu (chennai) replies to Hrishikesh 1 day ago
why don’t you feel sorry for the hundred’s of sadu’s or hindhu’s who were burnt alive in the train. This bloody Tejal shah couldn’t find the pain of hindhu’s and couldn’t exhibit the sadu killings in the train. Every idiot talks about killing of muslims, but they don’t think the reason behind those deaths.Poor indian hindus. If hundreds of hindhus are killed no one cries aloud, but if 1 muslim is killed then there will be many dogs to bark on this . Pity hindhus.:(
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为什么你不为火车上被活活烧死的上百名(印度教)圣人或者印度教徒感到难过。可恶的Tejal shah发现不了印度教徒的痛楚,不展示火车上被杀害的圣人。每个傻子都在谈论msl被杀,但是他们没有想想背后的原因。如果数百名印度教徒被杀害,没人会大呼小叫;但是如果一名msl被杀,那么许多狗就会狂吠。可怜的印度教徒 🙁

NFZ (gurgaon) replies to Hrishikesh 1 day ago
Thanks Hrishikesh, We need many more sensible people like you!
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谢谢,Hrishkesh。我们需要更多你这样的理智人!

Praveen (India) replies to Hrishikesh 1 day ago
Dont you feel sad for the people who burnt alive in the train..havent you read that story of agony n pain..this riot was started by this so called peace lovers..saying that i am not promoting riots but efforts should come from both side…Jai hind
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难道你不为火车上被活活烧死的人感到伤心吗…你没有读过有关临死挣扎和痛苦的故事吗…这个暴乱是由所谓的和平爱好者引发的…我不是在宣传暴乱,但是努力应该来自双方…印度胜利。

indian (hyd) 1 day ago
What about innocent Hindus burnt in the train 🙁
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那被烧死在火车上的无辜印度教徒又怎么说 🙁

Indy (Indai) replies to indian 1 day ago
Looks like the world is concerned only about muslims and terrorists, though they are the trouble creators all over the world.
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虽然msl和恐怖分子是全世界的麻烦制造者,但是似乎全世界只关注他们。

sknayak1950 (Bhubaneswar)
The show of GODHRA riots in China is a master mind to defame MODI.Why these people are reluctant to show the BURNING TRAIN at GODHRA conjointly?Why Tarun Gogoi will not be blamed for not acting promptly to save the valuable 21 LIVES reported so far?
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在中国播放高德拉暴乱短片是策划者用于诽谤穆迪的伎俩。为什么这些人不愿意一起展示高德拉被烧的火车?Tarun Gogoi没有迅速拯救迄今报告的21条宝贵生命,为什他没有因此遭受责备?

Dinesh Prabhakar (delhi)
Ambassador be recalled back to India for this folly!
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荒唐,把印度大使召回来!

Picha (india) 1 day ago
narendra modi, bjp and their clan can rejoice. Truths are Truths, whatever they may be, cannot be washed away by Lies & Lies laced with Half truths.
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纳伦德拉·穆迪、印度人民党和他们的集团可以庆祝了。不管怎么样,事实就是事实,它是不会被谎言冲刷掉的。谎言掺有一半的真理。

Al Harami Muslimin (Deoband, UP, India) 1 day ago
I think they should also include and show the atrocities on Sikhs during the 1984 riots. Mr. SM Krishna should be present there in person, during the inauguration of that exhibition. I am sure that will be a great show and a bumper hit !!! Only a few hundred Muslims were killed in the Godhra riots, that too, only in parts of Gujarat. But in 1984, thousands of Sikhs were brutally killed and slaughtered all over the country. Also, this exhibition should elaborate that 67 hapless and innocent Hindus were charred to death in that carnage, apparently for no reason and this sparked the violence. Let the whole world know the true story. Let truth prevail. Satyamev Jayate.
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我认为他们也应该展示1984年暴乱中对锡克教徒犯下的暴行。在展览的开幕典礼上,克里希纳先生应该亲自到场。我确信这会是一场伟大的展览,会引起轰动!只有几百名msl在高德拉暴乱中被杀,暴乱地区也局限于古吉拉特邦的部分地区。但是在1984年,全国有数千名锡克教徒被残忍屠戮。此外,这次展览也应该详细描述67名倒霉的无辜印度教徒被无缘无故烧死,从而激发了这次暴乱。让整个世界知道真相。让真理占上风。

Indian (Bangalore) 1 day ago
Who cares??? Congress who killed so many Shikhs?? Muslims who are killing so many hindus or killing their own brothers in Seria, Iraq, Lebia, Afghanistan & pakistan??? China who has killed his own students and killing Tibet???
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谁会在意?杀了如此多锡克教徒的国大党会在意?杀了如此多印度教徒或者在叙利亚、伊拉克、利比亚、阿富汗和巴基斯坦杀自己兄弟的msl会在意?杀自己学生和藏人的中国会在意?

Mansi (Noida) 1 day ago
Why to blame China when an Indian ambassador inaugurated the event !!!!
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既然印度大使揭幕了这次展览,为什么要责怪中国!(译文来源:三泰虎)

asif (ahmedabad) 1 day ago
Muslims had always been facing atrocities from various non-Muslims faiths across the globe. All are afraid of Muslims and hence want our Genocide. I am sure, at the end, Muslims will rule the world
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msl总是要面对来自全球异教徒的暴行。大家都害怕msl。我确信msl最终会统治世界。

DK (Delhi) replies to asif 1 day ago
Most people from other religions want is happy co-existence but as you rightly mentioned many many muslims want to rule the world – and that create problems. Look anywhere and try finding the cause of trouble ….
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其他宗教的大多数人想要和睦共处,但是正如你提到的,许多msl想要统治世界,因此制造了问题。随便找找,试着找到问题的根源…..

nirvana (India) replies to asif
see the statement you made at end….thats why we hate you…and if the whole world hates you then you should have brains to infer that your religion has a lot of problems
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看看你最后的声明,这就是我们讨厌你们的原因…如果全世界都讨厌你们,那么你们应该有头脑来推断一个结论,即你们的宗教有很多问题。

kalabairava (kasi) 1 day ago
Congress may have paid china to do this. This is a typical congress stunt to their anti BJP campaign. Traitors. Gujrat should do a world show, showing respression in tib%t, xinjiang and also the sikh riots and all other riots that happened during congress rule.
Agree (11)Disagree (4)Recommend (6)

国大党可能花钱收买中国这样做。这是国大党反印度人民党运动的典型手腕。叛徒!古吉拉特邦应该来个世界展出,展示xz和xj压迫,还有锡克教徒暴乱和其他国大党统治期间的暴乱。

MS (NRI) 23 hrs ago
As a Muslims, We should and must not forget Coward act of Modi and his associates, who killed innocent Muslim Women and children…some of them paying price for their crime and rest will follow…..
Agree (8)Disagree (14)Recommend (2)

作为一名msl,我们应该和必须牢记穆迪及其同伙的懦夫行为。他们杀害无辜的msl妇女和孩子…其中一些人为其罪行付出了代价,其余人也会付出代价的…

MS (NRI) 23 hrs ago
Whole World knows It was Moron Modi who was directly involved in mass murdering of Helpless Muslim Women and children, Hence he’s still in power with the help of Racist impotent cowards gujjus…. that’s dictatorship not democracy…..
Agree (8)Disagree (13)Recommend (2)

全世界都知道穆迪傻瓜直接卷入了对无助的msl妇女和孩子的大规模杀害。在种族主义无能懦夫的帮助下,他仍然掌权…这是专政,不是皿煮…

友荐云推荐
  1. 感觉宗教信仰就是杀戮的原罪~~~我也挺害怕中国少数穆斯林的激进行为,话说TG为何不加大对穆斯林激进思想的引导和同化,貌似国内关于这些的报道很少,有懂行的求解释~ 😆

  2. 好像西方至今没有解除对该邦部长的禁令。
    三哥就这样,乌鸦光看到别人黑,轮到自己就得了健忘症。
    最好笑的就是有人替三哥吹嘘民族和谐,这些人都看不到印度国内的种族暴行和历史积怨。

    • 这只不过是选票政治下网络文宣的一种形式而己,就像你,都感觉到穆迪有很多人支持,何况A3了。有很多译文里,都会没头没脑地冒出一段赞美穆迪的段子,见得多了,会潜移默化地认可其人……这就是选战所要的效果!

  3. 1.印度那个ognc公司根本没有4500米海床的钻探能力,甚至能不能搞清地质构造的分析能力我都怀疑。我干吗要担心你跟我竞争? 可笑的三哥250逻辑,你要是有钱你就撒吧。看着你打水漂。

    2.评论中某人关于穆斯林那段评述非常正确。
    有一句名言叫什么来着: 当穆斯林人口比你们少,你们要尊重我们的权力。当穆斯林人口和你们相当,你们要允许我们共同管理政治什么玩意的,当穆斯林人口比你们人口多,那么你们只有2种选择,要么变成穆斯林加入我们,要么被杀光。

    顺便提一句,日比亚好像生了10个小圣战分子。 建国初,豆奶人口才100万,现在已经1000万了。当年,清国为了平衡当地民族,主要是对付哈萨克和塔吉克族,采取扶植豆奶一族,当时才30万人不到,结果到清覆灭的时候,豆奶人口超100万,而且间接致使乌兹别克被绿化。

    我已经对豆奶没有什么耐心了。看看满大街的小偷。

    • 热比娅生了11个孩子,不是10个。她和第一个丈夫生育了6个,和第二个丈夫生育了5个。她逃亡国外后,还曾经打电话给自己的亲生儿子,要亲生儿子去广场自焚。
      热比娅把自己当作生育的工具、圣战工具看,根本就不把自己当人看。

  4. 我不知道居然发生过这种事,很惭愧,是宗教的冲突吗,两个有着千百年历史的宗教都没能导人向善,演变成彼此的自相残杀,这真是悲剧。印度能有勇气向世界展示这段历史,是令人敬佩的,不过怎么又删了?

  5. 伊斯兰教的本质问题在于教义本身,古兰经有强烈的排他性,这也导致部分穆斯林极端的原因,米国打压伊斯兰我其实是赞同的。伊斯兰的发展对于世界来说并不是什么好事,欢迎大家来讨论一下,这只是我个人的观点。

    • 我也觉得,穆斯林的教义必须要做一些改进,特别是中国的穆斯林中国政府必须间接的去改进他们的教义。宗教必须脱离世俗否则的话一当中国那天出点什么事的时候他们就是一个炸弹,必须要吧伊斯兰教变成象佛教道教一样脱离世俗才行,伊斯兰教對世俗的要求太多了,我们的佛教信徒并不需要去穿佛教的加啥,也不用剪头发,道教就更宽松了。,所以中国政府必须要在暗中做一些事情,同化是一个很好的选择,在西部必须增加汉人的比例,汉人过去了之后还要把我们的道教佛教都搬过去好让他们的人和宗教都发生改变才行,