从这里了解印度人对中国的看法

【更新】印度防卫网:中国称已开发出革命性100节高速核潜艇

2013-09-14 11:19 67个评论 字号:

印度防卫网:中国称已经开发出革命性100节的高速核潜艇。环球网一份综合报道声称:“参考消息引述了台湾中央社的报道,辽宁省副省长谭作钧近日透露中国第四代核潜艇的开发工作已经成功完成。这引起了军事界的许多猜测。一些专家认为该消息可信。香港文汇报援引网民分析说,谭作钧提到的第四代核潜艇型号肯定是095攻击核潜艇和096战略导弹核潜艇。然而香港军事分析家梁国梁说,通过推断,中国的第四代核潜艇应该编号为097和098。

译者:ngageboy
来源:三泰虎论坛 http://bbs.santaihu.com
外文:http://www.indiandefence.com/forums/china/31282-china-claims-have-developed-revolutionary-nuclear-submarine-high-speed-100-a.html

China claims to have developed revolutionary Nuclear submarine with high speed of 100

中国声称已经开发出革命性100(节)的高速核潜艇

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想象图由译者摘自网络

In its comprehensive report, huanqiu.com says: “Reference News quotes Taiwan’s Central News Agency as reporting that Tan Zuojun, Vice Governorof Liaoning Province, has recently revealed thatChina has successfully completed the development of its fourth-generation nuclear submarine. It has given rise to much speculation in military circles. Some experts are of the opinion that the news is credible.

“Hong Kong’s Wen Hui Po quotes netizens analysis on that day as saying that the fourth-generation nuclear submarine Tan Zuojun mentioned must beType 095 attack and Type 096 strategic nuclear submarines. However, Hong Kong military analyst Liang Guoliang said that by inference, China’s fourth-generation nuclear submarine must be Types 097 and 098.

环球网一份综合报道声称:“参考消息引述了台湾中央社的报道,辽宁省副省长谭作钧近日透露中国第四代核潜艇的开发工作已经成功完成。这引起了军事界的许多猜测。一些专家认为该消息可信。

香港文汇报援引网民分析说,谭作钧提到的第四代核潜艇型号肯定是095攻击核潜艇和096战略导弹核潜艇。然而香港军事分析家梁国梁说,通过推断,中国的第四代核潜艇应该编号为097和098。

“Liang Guoliang pointed out to the reporter that China has been developing its fourth-generation nuclear submarines since 2000. It is said that this kind of submarine is of a revolutionary design that adopts unprecedented method of propelling by magnetic liquid without screw propeller.

“Besides, the submarine is even free of tail and horizontal rudders and possibly has not even a surrounding shell. Therefore, it generates no mechanical or cruise noise at all and will be a real ‘ocean black hole.’

“In theory, the submarine’s speed may reach 100 knots (according to the original text in huanqiu.com), quicker than all ordinary high-speed torpedoes.

梁国梁向记者指出,中国自2000年以来一直在开发其第四代核潜艇。这就是说该潜艇将采用一种革命性的的设计,没有采用螺旋桨而是前所未有的磁流体推进方式。

此外,该潜艇甚至没有尾舵和水平舵,甚至可能还没有围壳。因此,他不会产生机械和航行噪音,将是一个真正的“大洋黑洞”。

从理论上讲,该潜艇的速度可以达到100节(根据环球网的原文),速度比所有普通的高速鱼雷还快。

“However, Liang said: the ‘successful development’ does not necessarily mean ‘successful manufacture.’ If the design has been completed and a submarine half or one thirds of the size of prototype has been made and successfully passed various tests, the development can be regarded as successful. However, the construction of one is another matter. According to Liang’s estimate, it takes at lease 4 to 6 or even 10 years to successfully launch and complete all relevant equipment for the submarine.”

Source: huanqiu.com “Hong Kong media guesses China has developed a revolutionary submarine with 100 knots high speed” (translated from Chinese by Chan Kai Yee)

“不过。”梁国梁说:“开发成功,并不意味着制造成功。如果设计已经完成,是指已经制作潜艇一半或三分之二大小的模型,成功通过各种考验,开发才认为成功。然而,造一艘又是另一回事了。根据梁的估计,需要花费4-6年甚至10年才能完成潜艇的所有相关设备并下水。

以下为网友跟帖:

译者:ngageboy
来源:三泰虎论坛 http://bbs.santaihu.com/thread-7316-1-1.html

Gessler(印度)
Chinese and innovation??
Is it going to be something like the “retractable pylon” they invented for J-20 which actually helps only to increase RCS?

中国搞创新??
它会如愿以偿的,就像他们发明类似于J-20上有助于减少雷达反射信号的“伸缩挂架”一样。

Manmohan Yadav(印度)
100 Knots = 185 Kms/h
at that speed, the submarine is no longer silent and can be picked off
at as far as 600 Kms by present day sensors.
Some Idiot must have made it up.

100海里/小时=185公里/小时

这样的速度下,潜艇不会是安安静静的,它会被现今的传感器在600公里外就探测到了

白痴才造这样的潜艇

Layman(印度)
100 knots !!!, Unfathomable. That too a submarine… well it would interesting to see their designs when they finish up.

100节!!!深不可测啊。这还是潜艇么。。当他们建造完成后,好想看看他们的设计。

Manmohan Yadav(印度)
BTW, what about water resistance ???????

顺便说一句,水的阻力呢???

Cro(克罗地亚)
Chines propaganda on the job…..

这是中国的宣传工作啦

Sagar alias Jacky(印度)
Must be like our Times Of India, they will issue an apology later.

(香港媒体猜测。。。)
很像我们的《印度时报》嘛,他们会在稍后刊发(错误)道歉的

Vyom(印度)
100 knots??? It is insane!! The seer water pressure and stress on it hull will collapse it, imagine the drag on it.
Either they have built a full sized “Nautilus” with perfected Carbon Nano-tube tech, otherwise its a pure hoax.

100节???这太丧心病狂了!!要知道水在船体上的压力和重力,是会让它崩溃的,想象一下它受到的阻力。

要么他们造一艘全尺寸拥有完善纳米管技术的“鹦鹉螺”号,否则它就纯粹一骗局。

以下是评论更新部分:

Marqueur(印度)
185 Km/h underwater … my question is with that speed … how its going to affect the stealth features … definitely going to make some noise !!!
unless chinese got there hand on capt. Nemo’s ship nautilus

水下185公里/小时…我的疑问是,在这样的速度下…是否会影响到隐形功能…(因为)肯定会产生一些噪音的!
除非中国能将尼莫船长“鹦鹉螺”号弄到手。

Layman(印度)
They will build something odd and claim that it is going at 100 knots who is there to confirm as of such their military establishment has sworn to shoddy secrets.

他们老是搞些稀奇古怪的东东,比如声称达到100节的潜艇,可以确定就是在他们那种军事体制下常发布的虚假机密(之一)。

Picard(克罗地亚)回复Gessler(印度)
Um, WTF? That’s moronic. Guess that too much copypasting of other’s mistakes causes brain damage

额,这(哔)是啥?脑残的。据说经常复制粘贴“别人的谬论”会导致大脑损伤的。

Layman(印度)回复Picard(克罗地亚)
Sometimes it is said full cup cant think anything and empty cup(minds) can work wonders. these guys are trying to showcase their skills with creating something biggest and greatest. But this call defies laws of physics i must say.

人们说满杯时想不出任何东西,空杯(脑袋)时可以创造奇迹。这些家伙正在试图创造最大最了不起的事情,以展示他们的技术能力。但是我必须承认这论调违背物理规律。

Manmohan Yadav(印度)回复Vyom(印度)
carbon nano tube
hmmm…. now that would be interesting

碳纳米管
嗯。。。。现在变得越来越有趣了

Gessler(印度)回复Picard(克罗地亚)
In normal weapon bay operations, it’s a simple 3-step process :-
1. Open weapon bay
2. Release missile
3. Close weapon bay
In that “innovation” they pioneered (see the J-20 thread), it is much longer 7-step process :-
1. Open weapon bay
2. Stick launch pylon (w/ missile) out of the bay
3. Close weapon bay door
4. Release missile
5. Open weapon bay again
6. Retract the launcher
7. Close bay door again
I’m baffled how they claim a 7-step process is cleaner and can be done faster than a simple 3-step process!
And guess what…they ridiculously claim that this arrangement reduces RCS, because the bay doors are opened only for a short period of time.
Now that is the edge of hypocrisy. In normal weapon bay design, the innards of the bay can be scanned only if the enemy radar is probing while using the 3 o’ clock or 9 o’ clock positions (wrt to the targeted plane) as a yardstick, or from below.
They cannot be seen if scanning from upfront or from rear/above.
In this so called “innovation”, the “stealth” plane actually carries an external pylon for a while! And worse part is that this pylon can be seen from any direction (except the polar opposite), the launch rail (and the missile on it) are effective RCS-enhancers and are fully visible from front, sides, back, below or maybe even from above.
And secondly, you can see there is a lot of movement in the weapon release system – 7 steps are taken one after the other, and the surfaces with all their corner reflectors are moving a lot more than usual weapon bay operations, which translates into more activity visible on enemy’s radar screen.
And if it’s an L-band VHF radar scanning from below…good luck with the stealth tag.
Chinese and their innovations, total hogwash and waste of time.
Have you realized it as yet – it seems China is a more efficient money-waster than US, it seems they want to surpass the US in this field too.

在正常的武器舱操作是简单的3步骤: –
1.打开武器舱
2.发射导弹
3.关闭武器舱
他们率先采纳了这种“创新”( 参考J-20的运作),是更繁琐的7个步骤: –
1.打开武器舱
2.发射架(武器/导弹)伸出舱外
3.关闭武器舱门
4.发射导弹
5.再次打开武器舱
6.回收发射架
7.再次关闭舱门
我百思不得其解,他们怎么能声称7步过程更干净利落,比那个简单的3步过程的速度更快!
你猜怎么回事……他们竟然可笑地声称,这样安排是为了降低雷达反射波 ,因为舱门只有在很短的一段时间内打开。
现在它处在虚假边缘。在正常的武器舱设计中,如果敌方雷达想探测,只有在3点钟或者9点钟的位置才能搜索到武器舱的内部(相对于目标平面)或从下面。 如果从前部或后部/上方搜索,他们是看不到(武器舱)的。
在这所谓的“创新”下,“隐形”飞机实际上需要花费一点时间的将发射架伸出!更糟糕的部分是这个挂架可以从任何角度看到,(除非屁股对屁股),伸出的导轨(上面装导弹)也是有效的雷达反射波增强器,从前面、侧面、背面、下面,甚至从上面都可以。
其次,你可以看到武器释放系统有很多的动作 -一步接一步做好 7个步骤,机体表面全是反射截面,比常规布局的武器舱多了许多,从而转化为敌方雷达上更多的可视信号。
如果用L波段的甚高频雷达从下面搜索…那么“隐身贴条”(译者:应该指外露的导弹)充满好运啊。
中国人和他们创新,全是猪食还浪费时间。
你可能尚未意识到 – 中国浪费起钱来似乎比美国更有效率啊,看来他们也想在这一领域超越美国。
(译者:这位三哥洋洋洒洒满篇的羡慕嫉妒恨啊啊啊)

Picard(克罗地亚)回复Gessler(印度)
Brain damage. One of most important rules in anything related to military is KISS: keep it simple, stupid. Use simplest tools and processes that can do the job and you’ll be fine. That is called “eliminating friction” (I believe Clausewitz talked about it).

脑损伤?任何与军事有关的最重要规则之一就是KISS:保持简单,傻瓜式。能使用简单的工具和流程做事情可以说明你很优秀。这叫做“消除摩擦”。(我相信克劳塞维茨说过)
(译者:克劳塞维茨,德国军事理论家历史学家,著有《战争论》)

Gessler(印度)回复Picard(克罗地亚)
…and now we have to deal with this hoax about a hypothetical 100-knots submarine which they claim is absolutely noise-less.
I’m again baffled how an object moving at such great speed through intense water resistance can be “stealthy” on any type of detection sensors, and I wonder how it will be noise-less, really.
I would think a present day Kilo-class SSK can be more stealthy than that.

…现在我们来分析一下这个所谓时速为100节潜艇,甚至他们声称完全低噪音的恶作剧吧。
我再次感到困惑的是如此快速度的运动物体,如何承受强力的水阻,而且任何监测设备都无法探测的“隐身”,还有我真想知道它是如何做到低噪音的。
我认为现今的基洛级常规动力潜艇比它跟隐蔽

Picard(克罗地亚)回复Gessler(印度)
If it is VHF radar, or God forbid HF radar, having bay doors open won’t make a difference since stealth aircraft won’t be any more stealth than Gripen or Rafale.
I knew that since they unveilled J-20. At least PAK FA, waste of money as it is, seems to be an effective and logical design. As someone put it (paraphrasing) “Russians declined to compromise aerodynamic performance for increased stealth”. Looks like French, Swedes and Russians are the only sane aircraft designers left.

如果是甚高频雷达,或千万别是高频雷达,打开舱门飞机的隐形性能并不比鹰狮或阵风战机更隐形多少。

他们公布J-20了后,我才知道这些。至少还有个猛禽斯基项目和它一样费钱,似乎它的设计还是有效和合乎逻辑的。就像有些人把他称作(意译)“俄罗斯为了增强隐身拒绝妥协的空气动力性能”。看起来只有法国、瑞典和俄罗斯才有唯一理智的飞机设计师留下来。

It can’t. You’ll probably be able to hear it from surface just by putting head into sea.
Nimitz-class aircraft carrier is more acoustically stealthy than that, let alone submarines. To be fair, if such submarine is made, it will simply rely on outrunning torpedoes rather than on stealth, but it will be so expensive Chinese won’t be able to afford more than one or two which will spend 99% of time in maintenance. 5 seconds on super speed and then spend 5 days fixing cracks.

它(指报道中的潜艇)做不到的。你只需将脑袋浸到海里,可能从地面就能听到它(的噪音)。
尼米兹级航母在声学都上比这潜艇更隐蔽,更不用说潜艇了。平心而论,这样的潜艇会依靠这项能力成功摆脱鱼雷,而不是用来隐形。而且它会非常昂贵,中国只能承受得起装备一两艘,因为它将花费99%的时间在维修上。5秒超高速(航行)然后花5天时间修复裂缝。

Manmohan Yadav(印度)回复Gessler(印度)
Well though very stupid
I am glad that China is doing it, good for us

虽然很傻瓜
我还是很高兴中国花(大精力)搞这玩意儿,对我们有利。

Manmohan Yadav(印度)回复Picard(克罗地亚)
If the Chinese do plan on bragging
they should at least make is more sensible and believable

如果中国人打算吹牛。
他们起码应该比(我们吹牛)更明智些、更可信些。
(译者:一个比较理性的三哥)

Sagar alias Jacky(印度)回复Picard(克罗地亚)
Hope the Chinese scrap all the other submarine projects & build only this ‘unbelievable’ submarines in future. Then the Indian Navy can save some money on the submarine front

希望中国人作废掉其他所有的潜艇计划,而在未来都花心思在这个“不可思议”的潜艇上。那时印度海军就能在潜艇方面省下一笔钱了

Soumya(印度)
China and its ……………..Leave it

中国和它的。。。。。忘了它吧(倒地大笑)

Zambino(印度)回复Soumya(印度)
i am sure it ‘ll be a flying submarine and ‘ll attain the 100 knots mark..

我确信它能成为一艘会飞的潜艇,并且达到100节大关。

Soumya(印度)回复Zambino(印度)
Still I am searching what China never claimed

我仍然还在寻找(资料),中国(官方)从未声称

The DRDO GUY(印度)
i do not have any doubt in my mind that china can not make such sub which can attain this super speed but the point to ponder is if this would have been some sort of technological advantage then us would have at least 20 of them by now….In every game their are some set of rules and in science their are certain laws which one need to abide by.

中国不可能造出达到这样超级速度的潜艇,这点在我心中没有任何怀疑,但是从思考角度看如果这(是真的)将是从某种形式上的技术优势,那么我们将比他们至少落后20年。每一场游戏里他们都有一些规矩,同样在科学领域也有一定的规律需要去遵守。

Layman(印度)
Does anyone know of a being which can swim or flap at these speeds in the sea… I think Chinese might be replicating them and saying if it can do we can do too…
IT is possible for miniature torpedoes, but imagining it for a sub it close to impossible.

有没有人知道存在一个此速度下还能在海里游着或活动的东西?中国能批量生产它们,他们能做到的,我想我们也可以。。

如果作为小型鱼雷还有可能,但是想象它如果是潜艇那几乎是不可能的。

Picdelamirand-oil(法国)回复Layman(印度)
There is perhaps technology problems to implement it on massive sub but it’s not a physics laws limitation.

对于用在更大体积的潜艇上有可能存在一些技术问题,但它在物理定律上并没未受限

Himanshu Pandey(印度)
all I can say Iran and NK are not alone in this larger then reality projects

当这个大型项目实现时,我可以肯定的说伊朗和北韩不孤独
(译者:意思是说中国会转移技术给这两个国家?)

友荐云推荐
    • 问题是他们什么都不知道。磁流体推进技术,以现在的眼光看,基本就是个科幻般的存在,但我国确实是在这方面走在了前面,已经有多艘试验模型艇进行过试航了,那还是在九十年代,现在发展成啥样了,谁都不好说。不过我个人认为初期投入实用的在技术上不会那么夸张,速度应该不会超过40节,但确实没有围壳舵和首水平舵,不过会保留围壳。这十年来中国在减震基座和静音泵方面成绩显著,加上早就掌握的消音瓦技术,大洋黑洞可不是开玩笑的。
      三哥的评论,说明他们是真不懂,类似鸦片战争时,两江总督牛鉴以为英国的火轮船“疑其系用牛拉”,有人将实情告之还“疑信未决”,直到亲见之“才叹而信之”。
      这才叫死都不知道是怎么死的。

  1. 人家说的一百节是理论速度,正如高铁有按理论高速来走吗?
    不过,即使达到鱼雷速度,也可以逃避攻击。而且多向动力驱动,可睡意上升下沉,原地360度旋转漂移什么的。
    关键是磁动力推进,声纳指标十分低,那个説神马600公里外就发现的阿三懂什么。

      • -。-有种东西叫空气泡。。

        这种技术应用就是在鱼雷上 空气泡鱼雷 速度就是100节以上

        早就研制出来了。但是一直没实战机会

        通过对前方水增加一定温度使其汽化会包裹整个船体前进 这就不纯粹是在水里了可以减少很多阻力

    • 核潜艇分攻击核和战略核两种,中国一般是一代会两种同时开发,091、092第一代,093、094第二代,095、095第三代,目前第三代都还没公布面世,现役的只有前四种。不过按照中国现在的武器发展思路,服役一代、试验一代、设计一代,最起码097、098应该是存在于设计图纸上的,但距离服役面世,保守估计还要十年以上。

  2. 超导电磁流体推进是把电能直接转换成流体动能,以喷射推进取代传统螺旋桨推进的新技术,它具有低噪音和安全性等特点,在特殊船舶推进应用中具有重大价值。中科院从1996年开始超导磁流体推进技术的研究,研制成功世界上第一艘超导螺旋式电磁流体推进实验船,2000年获中科院科技进步二等奖。建成了用于磁流体推进器水动力学研究的海水循环试验装置和用于试验船综合性能研究的航试水池。
    _____________________百度百科
    三哥,你在哪?超导电磁流体推进,你家知道是什么吗?

    • 很显然他们不知道嘛!就好像非洲黑人第一次看到枪一样,以为是烧火棍,然后……就木有然后了

  3. 第一个评论翻译错了,它使用J20的挂架在讽刺中国的“创新”,他认为那个挂架增加了反射面积(很脑残)

    • 不是的。
      看过泵喷推进没?尾部有个大套管子对吧?那个东西还是有的,但是泵喷推进,套管里有螺旋桨把水流向后推送,所以本质上还是螺旋桨推进的。磁流体推进的话,套管里面是空的,海水在里面流动,在这个贯通海水的套管通道内建立有一个磁场,这个磁场能对导电的海水产生电磁力作用,使之在通道内运动,若运动方向指向船艉,则喷射水流所产生的反作用力就会推动船舶前进。磁场可以调整方向,所以连艉舵都省了

    • 在磁力上的研究,中国是领先美国的,中国想靠磁力解决可控核聚变,美国走的是另一条路,所以磁力研究,兔子一直站在顶端.但是这2条路谁能走到终点,研究出可控核聚变还真说不好,取代石油的东西,太难

  4. 回楼上四代是094.我认为怎么会呢。2009年486在青岛检阅军舰的时候,出来的不是094吗,当时外媒都盼着是096呢。

    • 呵呵,正是那次海上阅兵证明各路情报人员的工作不给力。出来的是汉改(091三号艇),旁白说是第二代核潜艇,意思是091/092第一代;汉改第二代;曝光的093/094第三代。辽宁副省长说的第四代应该是095/096。

  5. 中国不可能造出达到这样超级速度的潜艇,这点在我心中没有任何怀疑,但是从思考角度看如果这(是真的)将是从某种形式上的技术优势
    ===============
    总有一天我们会造出来 的,你蠢货。

  6. 置顶 了?再踩一下

    再看一下,果然更新了,如果有这么快的速度,那潜艇的阻力肯定好小,推重比很大,那该称之为飞,不是什么气泡鱼雷原理所能比及的

  7. 五十年前我们也没想到有J20,J31,科技的发展本来就是不可思议的,迂腐的大脑自然不会有创新,三哥这样多好

  8. 早在几年前已经出现一种针对航母的新型水中椭圆的磁流体武器,可以再美军航母毫无察觉的情况下跳跃出水面执行一次性摧毁任务,并且超高速隐蔽脱逃。印度不要总是想着潜艇的样子,都是在变化的,美国如果搞突然袭击,一定会发现一些自己从未预料的对手出现,很快就会做上谈判桌。

  9. east反应堆令人期待呢,人工太阳提供无线的能量,能源没有危机的时代快要到来呢,另外美国也有合作,那些说中国核电再利用无限循环就是指的这个在合肥的项目。east是世界上最先进的可控核聚变实验场。

      • 国际合作的ITER可控核聚变试验反应堆正在法国建设中,在这个项目建成前,中国的合肥EAST是世界上唯一Q值能达到1,能输出电流,能为ITER提供数据支持的全超导托卡马克。它现在每天都在给那个不靠谱的国际合作项目提供数据,因此不存在任何泄密。

  10. 怎么今天没更新啊。。。另想求教一个问题:印度的选举制度是只有总理没有总统呢?还是总理就是总统呢?

    • 有总统也有总理,但总统没什么实权。–【印度总统是印度的国家元首及第一公民,也是印度武装部队的最高统帅。理论上,总统拥有不少权力,不过实际上许多赋予总统的权力由总理领导的部长会议行使。总统由国会及各邦立法机关经选举产生的议员选出,每届任期5年。现任总统可竞逐连任。–摘自百度百科】印度政体糅合了美国的联邦制和英国的君主立宪制。由于印度历史上从来都不是一个统一的国家,为维系国家形式上的统一,中央政府给予各邦很大的自治权。一般认为,印度也是联邦制国家。

  11. 我只听说过百节鱼雷,还是理论的,百节潜艇应该也可以,但也是理论的,技术上的问题没那么快可以解决吧?是战略忽悠?

  12. 100节的淫作也拿来当真,这位辽宁省长很外行啊!加之媒体炒作,国家形象不谌设想,中国潜舰研究有突破,但无需夸张,搞出来再意淫不迟嘛,相间何急??

    另外,三泰这两天中秋休息了吗?两天没更新啦!

  13. 楼上是否看走眼了?人家辽宁省长没说100节,那是港媒说的。
    三泰虎去旅游了?博客更新很淡定。