In terms of programmer quality, do you agree that China ranks 1st globally while India ranks 31st?
译文来源：三泰虎 http://www.santaihu.com/46878.html 译者：Joyceliu
Leave alone India. The land of Alan Turing, and a major center of tech R&D - UK is placed at 29, the land of Google, Apple and Microsoft - US is at 28 and Israel at 35. That alone should say something is wrong about the ranking rather than the countries ranked. Such poorly constructed reports without much context are more like trolling - built to get eyeballs with shock value rather than convey useful information. Of course, HackerRank benefits from that extra attention.
Think about this: the countries that rank low are English speaking ones, while countries ranking up are all non-English speaking countries. What does that say?
HackerRank is a coding site that mostly supports English and most of its users are from English speaking countries. In English speaking countries, a lot of people sign up to the website - whether they are great programmers or not. Some of them solve great challenges, while most are just casual browsers. The average user from these countries are not likely to finish all the challenges.
In the non-English speaking countries, the only guys signing up are those at the elite level - the ones who have a good command of English and are well connected to even know about the website. These users are few in number [how many French and Swiss programmers are on HackerRank?] and are likely more committed than an average user. These elite users are also more likely to use HackerRank as a way to get a top job in US/UK, while those in major English speaking countries have other avenues to get job interviews.
See Alexa ranking here: - more than half of the users are Indians and there are 17 times more Indians than Chinese. While the site ranks a respectable 484 in India, it is an also-ran in China at rank 11343. Does it mean Indians are far more interested in competitive programming than Chinese? That would be an equally faulty conclusion from this statistic.
Given that the company is primarily India centric, there would also be pressure from investors to grow it outside, especially in large markets like China. Such “statistics” quoted in the question help it a bit in that direction.
While the Chinese and Russian and French and Greek programmers might indeed be better than the Indian ones, this HackerRank statistics cannot be used to get any insight.
Not at all. There are many strong programmers who are gainfully employed and are doing exciting work, say in the Silicon Valley, but could not be bothered by competition programming. Russia and China apparently cannot employ all of their good programmers, which forces young people to spend a lot of time developing competition programming skills (which are very different from practical programming skills). Poland ranks high on the list, but how many successful Polish software companies can you name? In any case, list the most successful software companies and see where they are - that's a lot more reliable than Hacker rank, ICPC, Google Code Jam, Top coder or any other competition. College students in North America, India and Europe often work for those companies in the summer, and then get hired based on their skills. Students in other countries instead practice solving competition problems
Don't get me wrong - the winners of programming competitions are an amazing bunch of people and can be very useful in successful software companies. But contests tell you very little about entire countries.
No that's not true. Absolutely not.
In economics, one of the most common errors is to confuse correlation with causation. That is to falsely predict a cause when only correlation exists.
Lets see a simple example:
If it is found that students who took IIT coaching performed poorly than those who didn't take any coaching. What will you conclude from this data? Most of us will say that coaching are ruining the students. And this is exactly WRONG. We forgot to account that mostly weak students registered for coaching. And since the students were weak on average, their performance is also expected to be lower. Here there is no causation (coaching doesn't weaken students performance) but only correlation (coaching students and weak performers are correlated). And correlation tells nothing in isolation.
Lets see one more example:
If it was found that children that are breast feded for a longer duration are comparatively less immune; then what will you conclude? Is breast-feeding bad? No obviously NOT! Here also the weaker children are required longer breast feeding because they are weak to begin with.
So the learning is to not JUMP to CONCLUSIONS without analysing.
Apply the same logic to the question in hand? Who are more likely to spend all their time in coding contest? Chinese or Indian? Notice that a good coder in India is highly likely to get a job and hence won't compete in a coding competition. And a good Chinese coder is unlikely to get a coding job since software industry is not developed in China and hence he/she is more likely to compete in a competition.
Keral Patel, Webmaster
Please leave Indians aside as that is very wrong formula we are always on defensive mode and I can challenge any fucking russian or chinese to hack my clients website. But don’t show off. That is why I get paid and I get paid regularly even if no attacks happens.
Indians don’t code to get a rank they code to feed their stomachs and their parents or kids stomachs. I am not ashamed to write this as I am proud Indian to even write this as it is my duty to do what I have to do.
I have worked with Russian coders in past. They are good no doubt about it. Infact very smart if I had that knowledge I would not even have bothered going this far but would have taken a short cut and made money with 1000 clients.
We Indians are just different we stick with that client.
Russian shortcuts, initial shortcuts and rule bending is not profitable in long run. As it satisfies the client at that time.
So for a test or a given task maybe their algo is great and they can solve it in mins. I can do it too. hehe no worries. I can fuck my client up but we have “Karma” shit looming on our heads.
I cannot say anything about American or European Programmers except that they earn more then us, as I am not one of them. But Indian programmers don’t code for winning competitions they code for a living and they know what it takes to remain valuable in that particular company.
Therefore comparing apples with bananas is not a good practice.
When we will take hacking competition seriously believe me India will be number #1.
Rakesh Wagh, Observer of Indian and American politics
It is a good marketing technique from hacker rank. I wish hacker rank would had posted the stats on where their org's top developers come from. I believe India and US will be a pretty accurate assumption.
You get the point?
There are scores of people trying to find work by spending time on hacker rank and other such channels. While there are scores of other people who have work and would not care to register on hackerranks of the industry. Now will some one run some 'stats' to confirm my assertion that the latter are mostly from India and US?
从hacker rank入手是一个很好的营销技巧。我希望hacker rank能够公布一下组织内顶级开发人员的国籍的统计数据。我相信应该大概率是印度和美国。
有许多人想通过hacker rank和其他类似的渠道找到工作。但还有很多人本身就有工作，不会急着在hacker rank上注册。现在，有没有人发布“数据”来证实我的断言，即后者主要来自印度和美国?
I say that with all due respect to all the software developers of the world. We all are a great bunch scattered all across the globe. Such stats are not only misleading, they are also incomplete because they lack the underlying analysis of the motivation and logical reasoning towards the accuracy of the conclusion of such studies.
So let us have a great laugh at such stats over a drink and move on to solving some complex real world problem! Now which country wants to lead this race?
Harish Kotra, that-tech-guy
I won’t be able to answer anything about the quality of developers in India. But lets look at much more details than just answering broadly over the quality of the programmers from India.
Things to remember (there may be more) about this report are
1.This entire report is based on speed and accuracy of the developers
2.This report is based on the developers registered with HackerRank
3.This report is also based on the number of challenges developers have solved on HackerRank
Its de-facto to react to this report saying “Are Indians really that bad?”, “Is this report wrong?”, “Is this report biased?” and so on. But remember the above points and ask yourself, if you are a developer and if you are on HackerRank.
Developers in India are not much focused on competitive programming, solving challenges etc., and also most of them do freelance, remote development and other things. HackerRank is not just the only platform right? I have known many student developers who have been ranked top in TopCoder, CodeChef and others too. So, going just by this report and judging the quality is definitely not something you should do.
Rahul Funde, Editor
Ever since last 2–3 years China is topper in every single list that have been published since that period.
Be it Forbes or GQ or Business insider or what not? China went from only 4 companies in top 200 to 20–30 that includes pathetic like alibaba. Really? Are you really stupid enough to be fooled by them?
I have been outsourcing my programming work through various freelancing sites and never came across a Chinese. And moreover people who created Microsoft/Google/Facebook and what not are om 28th. And you are still believing these propaganda champions. Good luck to your IQ.
Mohit Shukla, studied at Indian Institute of Technology Varanasi
If a person’s Mathematics Knowledge & Skills are any indication of how Good a programmer he can be then China’s first and India’s 31st rank makes sense.China has been doing exceptionally well in International Mathematical Olympiad for past several years. Since 2000, china has bagged the 1st position record twelve times, they have been runner up 4 times and at 3rd place once.India on other hand has been finishing between twenties and thirties, with the best performance of 7 coming in 2001.
Sashank Reddy, works at Neato Robotics
I cannot consider the list to be genuine if China is ranked no1 and USA at 28. Thats absolute bs. All the work computer science and fundamental research happens in US. Every programming language and compiler ever written has been done in US. Every other dot com solution was provided by Indians. The relation was good. Americans made the tools and we would create customised end to end solutions.
The quality of developers improves with experience. What ever metric they used clearly doesnt tell the facts on ground.
Syed Fawad Hussain,
No, i think it’s a bit exaggeration or a probabilistic error. I don’t think so that quality-wise Chinese programmers rank 1st. I would say quantity-wise Chinese programmers could have beaten others(in a survey of above average programmers) because it’s huge country but India at 31st sounds a bit different story.
As far as my experience and observation is concerned, US and UK programmers are unbeatable. It’s not about quantity or anything else—i would say best programmer should have ability to revolutionize the software field. He/she should be innovative, novel and unique.
I agree that China ranks 1st globally and India ranks 31st in some rating describing a programming activities which are considered as not related at all to real programming by a lot of programmers - mostly competitive programming, plus some other stuff like basic exercises on language syntax. On a site which is considered as having nothing to do with real competitive programming by a lot of high-level competitive programmers - a lot of top-level contestants either don’t have profile there at all or only attend it rarely. Using average value which says nothing about distribution or number/percentage of people who are above particular cutoff and is strongly dependent on who’s using the site - everybody in the country or only top-level folks.
No, I don’t agree that on any ranking for “programmer quality,” China would rank even one position higher than India, or be the top ranker in the world.
The table displayed in the question is of HackerRank at some particular date. Hacking alone, that too by few active members of some website, is not representative of global programming quality.
I have seen software written by Chinese developers, and those were/are some of the lousiest code I have ever seen. Full of bugs and security issues. Although I am not sure if the security issues are intentional.
The USA rank is actually 128 thanks to India her rank rises to 28 while India rank number 1 drops to 31.
I went to school with both Indians and Chineses. I know them both.Indians are good at inventing while Chineses are good at copycatting and regurgitating memorized facts.
Kudos to India and God Bless the USA.
Interesting question. Being in industry I can tell you, it does not matter what competitions you win. Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk won no competition. Multiple skills are needed to succeed in real world. Competitions do not test those.
So China ranking higher than India has no meaning. Russia should rank higher than India though.
Agree. China is good at high end of programmer.
India is cheap doing low end of IT
Adil Raja, Security&Political Analyst
China is 1st undoubtedly, but keeping India at 31st is not fair. Low literary rate in India is to blame for these rankings though.
Vivek Dhavale, love to read , upsc aspirant ,
no , in the context of computer and software concerns india is above then China