三泰虎

印度人是不是认为2017年中国还和1962年中国一样

Do my Indian friends think China of 2017 is the same as China of 1962?

印度朋友们是不是认为2017年的中国还跟1962年的中国一样?

QUORA网站读者评论:

Sachin Divakar

Let me say this with atmost respect China in 2017 is way better economically and militarily than when it was in 1962 .But check what happened in 1967.The reason for failure of 1962 lies solely on our politicians and their shortsightedness.

We were ill equipped and under prepared and even 10 days before the start of war our prime minister believed the words of your leaders that there will be no war.And when you attacked and you had the element of surprise, our politicians did not use air force upon hearing from CIA and our troops were without food and ammunition due to the mismanagement and lack of planning .Which resulted in huge losses to the Indian side

In mountain warfare the advantage is held by those in the higher altitude.

我怀着最大的敬意说,2017年的中国在经济和军事上比1962年要强大得多。但我们来看看1967年发生了什么。1962年失败的原因仅仅在于我们的政治家和他们的短视。

我们装备不良,准备不足,甚至在战争开始前10天,我们的首相还相信你们领导人所谓的不会开战的说辞。当你们展开进攻,我们的政客们接到中央情报局的通知后也没有动用空军,而我们的军队由于管理不善、缺乏统筹,弹尽粮绝。这给印度造成了巨大的损失

在山地战争中,优势就存在于占据着较高海拔地势的一方。

译文来源:三泰虎     http://www.santaihu.com/46648.html      译者:Joyceliu

But on full scale war India definitely cannot beat china ,But its assured that china will be destroyed to an extent which it would not be able to comeback into the economic might which it has now at least for decades .And this time it is not the like even 1967 we would not take aggression lying down and playing dead.Will give it back in the same way.And it won’t be pretty.

If there is border skirmishes and localized conflicts losses would be almost same either sides .And depend upon theatre how much losses are incurred depending on positons.

And regarding a war my friend this is not the world of 1962 and china is not looked up on as a friendly nation by most of the countries even if they don’t declare war against India.They would stand by India and international pressure would be on china for declaring war.

In short it would cost china more dearly than India in terms of economic situation

但在全面战争中,印度肯定无法打败中国,但印度肯定会让中国遭到一定程度的损毁,使其无法恢复到近几十年来的经济实力。而这次情况不像1967年,我们不会坐以待毙。我们会反击的。

如果发生边界冲突和局部冲突,双方的损失基本上不相上下。

关于战争,我的朋友,如今已经不是1962年的世界,就算中国不对印度开战,大多数国家也都不会把中国视为友好的国家,他们会站在印度一边,如果中国宣布开战,国际社会也会对中国施压。

简而言之,在经济形势方面,中国将比印度付出更大的代价。

 

Sourav Goswami, Founder (2012-present)

No we don’t believe China of 2017 remained the same as 1962.

Your economy bloomed due to the immense hard work of Chinese people and excellent go nment policies.

Your Defense manufacturing capabilities impressed a lot of nations around the world.

Nowadays, China is being compared as the US who will take the charge of global super-power.

It is really a fascinating thing to witness as your good neighbor.

But, India also changed from the 1962 , but we remained friendly to the entire Chinese population like earlier.

We love your Chinese Mobile brands.

We welcome Chinese tourists and expats with open arms.

不,我们不相信2017的中国仍然是1962年的中国。

由于中国人民的辛勤劳动和出色的政府政策,你们的经济蓬勃发展。

你们的国防制造能力给世界上许多国家留下了深刻的印象。

如今,中国被世人拿来和称霸全球的超级大国——美国作对比。

作为好邻居,见证你们的发展,真是件非常棒的事。

但是,印度1962年后也有所改变,但我们仍像以前一样对所有中国人民友好。

我们喜欢你们中国的手机品牌。

我们张开双臂欢迎中国游客和外籍人士。

You blame us for border intrusion, but when you construct on Kashmir with Pakistan and construct illegal dams there, we only protest and never resort to violence.

Chinese Army intruded Indian territory several times but we always stopped them without firing a bullet or using force.

We treat a PLA Soldier Wang Qi with dignity after the 1962 war and never tortured him in any sorts.

We still love your cuisine and still call you “Chini”=Sugar because we find Chinese people sweet.

Look all the things I have mentioned earlier is definitely true for most of the Indians, but my point is that if our motherland will be in any danger from any external forces, we won’t sit idle.

We are tolerant and we know that Chinese don’t like India or Indians (largely due to Chinese internet forums ) but we still respect China’s rise and hopefully follow the same growth model for our country.

你们指责我们入侵边境,但当你们在巴基斯坦和克什米尔修建水坝时,我们只是抗议,从不诉诸于暴丽行动。

中国军队多次侵入印度领土,但我们从不发射子弹或使用武力就阻止他们。

在1962年战争后,我们对中国战士王琪给予了体面对待,从未折磨过他。

我们仍然喜欢你们的美食,还叫你“Chini”,也就是蜜糖,因为我们觉得中国人很甜。

如同我前面提到的所有事情,对于大多数印度人来说绝对是真的,但我的观点是,如果我们的祖国受到任何外来势力的威胁,我们绝不会袖手旁观。

我们是宽容的,我们知道中国人不喜欢印度或印度人,但我们仍然尊重中国的崛起,并希望我们的国家也能遵循同样的增长模式。

 

Pavanan Pillai, Pharmacist at Pharmaceuticals (2006-present)

The answer to your question would be both yes and no.

Yes, because the go nment has not changed and neither have the policies or the mind-set of the ru-rs in China.

No, because the China of 2017 is a very well off and prosperous nation. The military capabilities have increased manifold with the increased economic growth of China. The China of today is not one that knows hunger and privation. It is an engine that drives growth in Asia and across the globe.

But then, India is not the same as in 1962. Hunger, privation and many other ills afflicted India. Even though, many of the same ills still prevail, India is self-sufficient in food grains among other things. Although, India may not be as large as China in economic growth, the growth story of India is nothing to sneeze at. Militarily, India is eons away from those dark and gloomy days of 1962 where our soldiers clad in a sweater and canvas shoes took on the Chinese on the freezing heights. On empty stomachs they fought using bolt-action rifles that froze in the cold and they died fighting. Today, they are well-armed and would not be as easy to defeat as was the case in 1962

对于你的问题,答案既一样,也不一样。

说一样,是因为政府没有改变,中国的政策和心态也没有改变。

说不一样,是因为2017年的中国是一个非常富裕和繁荣的国家。随着中国经济增长脚步的加快,军事实力不断增强。今天的中国是一个没有饥饿和贫困的国家。它是推动亚洲和全球经济增长的引擎。

但是,印度和1962年不一样。饥饿、贫困和许多其他疾病折磨着印度。尽管许多同样的顽疾仍未祛除,但印度的食物和其他方面都实现了自给自足。尽管印度的经济增长可能没有中国那么快,但印度的增长也并非不值一提。在军事上,印度已经走出了1962年那种黑暗阴郁的时日,那时我们的士兵穿着毛衣和帆布鞋,在寒冷的高地上与中国人作战。他们饿着肚子用螺栓式步枪打仗,在寒冷中冻僵,死于战斗。今天,他们装备精良,不再像1962年那样容易被击败。

Today, both India and China are nuclear powers with huge militaries. Politically too, both nations can't afford to lose a war. So, if war breaks out, it would have to be a fight to the finish and we all know that there are no winners in a nuclear holocaust.

India is not a South Korea, North Korea, Japan, Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei, Nepal, Myanmar, Taiwan, Vietnam, Singapore, Laos, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Mongolia, Cambodia or Afghanistan to put up with any territorial violations. I have not included Russia as nobody messes with Russia, more so when Vladmir Putin is the president.

So my friend, we do hope the Chinese do not plan an (mis)adventure that could hurt us both, destroy Asia and doom the world.

Let's have peace, economic growth and increase the Gross National Happiness (to borrow the great concept from the tiny country of Bhutan) of our people.

今天,印度和中国都是拥有强大军事力量的核武器大国。政治上,两国都不能承受战败的结果。所以,如果战争爆发,必将是一场毁灭之战,我们都明白,核武器屠杀中绝对不会有赢家。

印度不是韩国、朝鲜、日本、菲律宾、马来西亚、文莱、尼泊尔、缅甸、越南、新加坡、老挝、塔吉克斯坦、吉尔吉斯斯坦、蒙古、柬埔寨或阿富汗这些能够容忍领土被侵犯的国家。我没有把俄罗斯算进来,是因为没有人能撼动俄罗斯,更何况现在是普京总统执政。

所以,我的朋友,我们确实希望中国人没有筹划可能伤害我们双方、毁灭亚洲和毁灭世界的冒险行动。

让我们拥有和平、经济增长,并提高我们人民的国民幸福总值(借用不丹这个小国的伟大概念)。

 

Nirmalya Raut, lived in India

Yes, we know China of 2017 is different from 1962. This was very visible from 1967 war in Sikkim sector as well as China’s war with Vietnam in 1970s. Say what you will but let me make this very clear that 1962 was a product of misperception and miscommunication. It is not the defeat which hurt us but what we still think is betrayal. It felt like an attack by another sibling who we respected and loved. I personally attribute the war to Mao and Nehru’s inability to understand each other and some personal ego clashes.

No war is going to place in this situation as the only beneficiaries of the event will be people who are not Chinese and not Indian(you know that). This issue is indeed serious and lets hope that we solve it amicably. The only path for both of our countries to take is one which is mutually beneficial. I know that China has serious problems with Japan, Korea and Vietnam yet they have found common ground to work. A recent report of the global consultants McKinsey & Co. , whilst 25% of executives worldwide regard China as their most important growth centre after the USA, only 4% of Indian CEOs share that belief. Similarly, only 2% of Chinese bosses see India as a major growth point. Despite the formidable reputation of Indian as well as Chinese businessmen for seeking out profit anywhere in the world, they seem wary of treading into each other’s country.Even tourist industry is very much stagnant. Hence, even though we are neighbors and at one time had a feeling of brotherhood we remain oblivious of each other’s existence.

是的,我们知道2017年的中国和1962年不同。这在1967年锡金战争和1970年代中国对越自卫反击战争中都能很明显的看出来。你愿意怎么说都行,但让我非常清楚地告诉你们,1962年是误判和误解导致的结局。伤害我们的并不是战败这个事实,而是我们觉得受到了背叛。这感觉就像是我们尊敬和爱戴的兄弟姐妹对我们的攻击。我个人把这场战争归咎于毛和尼赫鲁无法互相体谅,以及个人观点的冲突。

如今不会发生战争,因为战争的唯一受益者将不是中国人,也不是印度人(你知道的)。这个问题确实很严重,希望我们友好地解决它。我们两国采取的唯一途径是互利互惠。我知道中国与日本、韩国和越南存在严重问题,但他们找到了共同点。全球咨询公司麦肯锡最近的一份报告指出,尽管全球25%的高管认为中国是继美国之后最重要的增长中心,但印度CEO中只有4%的人持这种观点。同样,只有2%的中国老板认为印度是个重要的增长点。尽管印度和中国商人在全球各地赚钱的名气都很大,但他们似乎对踏入对方的国家都很谨慎。就连旅游业也不景气。因此,尽管我们是邻居,并曾有过兄弟情谊,我们仍然忽视了彼此的存在。

I am not sure what you are taught about India or not at all but here in India we know more about the history of Europe than that of China. This according to me is highly ridiculous because of the extensive contact we had with China in the past be it the Buddhist tradition and exchanges of knowledge and trade. This played a very vital in the course of history of both countries. The geopolitics of Asia is taking a turn for the worst, very similar to that of pre WWs Europe. We as people independent of our govt. should try to avoid this by more healthy interaction and getting to know about each others culture and thereby our mindsets.

You are not our sworn enemy and i hope that you too think the same.

我不确定你们对印度有什么样的了解,或者根本不清楚,但在印度,我们对欧洲历史的了解多过对中国的了解。我认为这是非常荒谬的,因为过去,无论是佛教传统还是知识与贸易的交流,我们与中国有过广泛的接触。这在两国的历史进程中起着至关重要的作用。亚洲的地缘政治正处于最坏的境地,非常类似于数次世界大战前的欧洲。作为独立于政府的人,我们应该通过更健康的互动,了解彼此的文化,从而了解我们的心态,来避免这种情况。

你们并不是我们的不共戴天的敌人,我希望你也这样认为。

 

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