三泰虎

如果罗马帝国和汉朝开战,谁能获胜

Who would have won in a war between Imperial Rome and Han Dynasty?

若罗马帝国和汉朝开战,谁能获胜?

Quora评论翻译:

Willy Dai, student in Michigan and future (electrical) engineer

Rome's troops probably had heavier armor than the Han dynasty's troops but…

The Han Dynasty had several major advantages over Rome:

·The Han Dynasty was able to field and sustain larger armies.

·The Han Dynasty had technological advantages such as the…

oPivot catapult / traction trebuchet

oRepeating Crossbow

罗马军队的装甲可能比汉朝军队重,但是…

汉朝比罗马有几个主要优势:

·能够派遣并维持更庞大的军队

·技术优势,如石弩/牵引投石器、连弩

The ignorant eggheads who say that Rome would win because of “strategy” need to get their brains checked.

Rome did have its share of brilliant generals but people often forget that China also had brilliant generals during ancient times.

一些无知的书呆子们说罗马会凭“战略”取胜。罗马确实有一些杰出的将军,但中国古代也有杰出的将军。

The Han Dynasty had brought a powerful nomadic confederation (The Xiongnu) to its knees.

汉朝打败了强大的游牧民族联盟(匈奴)。

Rome wouldn't really have an advantage due to “strategy” because both sides would have competent military leaders.

在“战略”上,罗马并没有真正的优势,双方都有出色的军事领导人。

Extra: Another critical factor about this scenario is Persia. I know that the OP sets up the hypothetical scenario without Persia but I still want to address it.

Persia was a powerful intermediate empire between Rome and China in the ancient world. Any outbreak of hostilities between Rome and China would've involved Persia but Persia was simply too powerful and large to be gobbled up by either.

另一个关键因素是波斯。波斯是在罗马和汉朝之间的强大帝国。罗马和汉朝之间爆发的敌对行动会牵涉到波斯,但波斯太过强大,任何一方都无法将其吞并。

Persia would've sided with the Han Dynasty because Ancient Persia and Ancient China maintained friendly relations. On the other hand, relations between Persia and Rome were never too peachy.

波斯可能会站在汉朝一边,因为古代波斯和古代中国保持着友好关系。另一方面,波斯和罗马的关系从来都不太好。

Edit: Depictions of the traction trebuchet and the repeating crossbow

牵引投石器、连弩

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Jack Montgomery, Logistics is the key to warfare, both modern and past.

Well, I can give you two answers,

我可以给你们两种回答:

In the short term, the Han win, in the long term, the Romans win.

从短期来看,汉朝获胜;从长期来看,罗马人获胜。

Since there is no Persia, this solves a lot of problems for the Romans, for many reasons, most blatantly logistics, they could not get over that hump, while China did not maintain hostile relations with the Parthians (I am assuming they are the Parthians since the map you are referring to, at least from what I have found, is of the 1st year Anno Domini.) and more of a mercantile one. So we do not know how exactly they would handle such a far enemy.

由于没有波斯加入,这为罗马人解决不少麻烦。原因有很多,最明显的是物资运输,他们无法越过波斯这个门槛。而中国并没有和帕提亚人敌对(我假设是帕提亚人,因为你是所指的是公元元年前后),更多的是保持商业关系。我们不知道他们会怎样对付这么远的敌人。

Now both empires’ were by far the two most advanced civilizations of their time, the Han having China’s first scientific golden age, while the Romans have assimilated, adopted, and adapted their way to the top. Both were advanced, Han was higher up. Militarily, Rome was better quality while China was more quantity, the legions would fair better disciplined, trained, and better led, but the hordes of China were by far more vast and they could easily support it, a huge flaw in the Roman army.

这两个帝国都是当时最先进的两个文明,汉朝拥有中国第一个科学黄金时代,而罗马人已经采用和适应了他们的方式,登上了顶峰。二者都很先进,但是汉朝更胜一筹。在军事上,罗马军队的素质更高,而中国军队的数量更多,军队纪律、训练和领导也会更好。中国军队要庞大得多,而且能够保证供给,这是罗马军队的一大缺陷。

译文来源:三泰虎 http://www.santaihu.com/46234.html     译者:Jessica.Wu

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Now let’s get down to business, the real battle. So I don’t know how, maybe a trade deal gone wrong, a little subterfuge, who knows, but Rome and the Han are at war. Quickly, Rome activates it’s legions to the front, they make it there (Persia, the battleground of the century) far before the gigantic peasant army being led by Han nobles arrive. Slowly the Romans run low on food, water, and other necessities as the now collapsed Parthians have left ravaged and poor remains of once great cities, then the Han forces arrive. The Romans fight bravely, knowing they are far outnumbered prepare a great defense. At first their prospects look good, but a devastating move utterly destroys the Roman forces, taking a general or two captive. The Romans retreat, the Han army in triumph.

言归正传,来谈谈真正的战斗(假设)。不知道出于什么原因,或许是贸易出问题了,罗马和汉朝处于交战状态。很快,罗马派遣军团赶赴前线,在汉朝贵族领导的庞大农民军队到来之前,他们就已经到达了前线(波斯,世纪战场)。慢慢地,罗马人的食物、水和其他必需品都用完了,而崩溃的帕提亚人也离开了曾经的大城市,留下了贫穷的遗迹,然后汉朝军队到了。罗马人知道自己在人数上远远落后,他们英勇作战,准备了一场伟大的防御。起初,他们的势头看起来不错,但一个毁灭性的行动彻底摧毁了罗马军队,一两个将军被俘。罗马人撤退,汉军胜利。

The following confrontations follow this pattern, the Romans, out numbered, and without good logistics are thrown into defeat, not losing any territory, but paying large amounts of war reparations and the prestige of the once invincible empire taking a huge toll. But, then comes in Rome’s greatest ability, they adapt. Throughout history this was the greatest weapon, when they could not defeat an enemy, the Romans would take their weapons and make them better, and turn these new war machines on the enemy. For years the Roman army builds up, using many of the technology taken from the battlefields, they make better weapons.

接下来的对抗是这样的,罗马人寡不敌众,加上没有良好的后勤保障,他们被打败了,但并没有失去任何领土,而是支付了大量的战争赔款,失去了曾经不可战胜的帝国的威望,付出了巨大的代价。罗马不能击败敌人,他们会改良武器,并把这些新武器用来对付敌人。多年来,罗马军队不断壮大,利用从战场上获得的技术,造出了更好的武器。

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To the surprise of the Han, their furthest western outpost is attacked, and utterly destroyed. Soon a Han army retaliates, over confident from their last victory, and they befall the fate of the outpost. One by one the Romans take down pieces and parts of the Han’s forces in the middle east, playing to their inability to move quickly and a new strategy not seen by the Han. Eventually the Han are beaten back to mid-Asia, utterly dumbfounded at their loss so far, and when offered with peace, albeit humiliating, they accept. Little do they know, the Roman Empire is barely maintaining their campaign, the distance from suitable farmlands to feed the legions and other required supplies once again their achilles heel.

令汉朝惊讶的是,他们最西边的前哨遭到攻击,并被彻底摧毁。很快,汉朝军队进行了报复,由于上次的胜利,他们过于自信,前哨的命运也随之降临。罗马人一个接一个地摧毁了汉朝在中东地区的部分势力,由于汉军不能快速移动,最终被击退到中亚,他们对这次的失败完全目瞪口呆。尽管是一次羞辱,但得到了和平,所以他们还是接受了。他们不知道,罗马帝国几乎无法维持他们的战役,后勤供给还是他们的致命弱点。

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