三泰虎

对印度人来说,1962年中印战争真那么重要吗?

Is the 1962 border skirmish with China really that important to Indians, and why?

对印度人来说,1962年中印边境冲突真的那么重要吗?为什么?

QUORA网站读者评论:

来源:三泰虎      http://www.santaihu.com/45825.html     译者:Joyceliu

外文链接:https://www.quora.com/Is-the-1962-border-skirmish-with-China-really-that-important-to-Indians-and-why

Vdhay Kumar N, B.E Mechanical Engineering & Construction, Bangalore University (2001)

yes for many of those who had to migrate from Pakistan to India and Tib to India for living due to war. They left their home land, lost their homes, property, money, some of the family members were killed, women were raped and then killed.

是的,很多人因为战争不得不从巴基斯坦移民到印度,从xz移民到印度。他们背井离乡、流离失所,损失了财产、金钱,还有些家庭成员被杀害,妇女被奸杀。

india is more powerful than Pakistan but still india respects Pakistan and does not violate LOC. nepal, srilanka, bhutan, bangladesh are nothing compared to india and still india do not have any border disputes why only china and Pakistan.

印度比巴基斯坦更强大,但印度仍然尊重巴基斯坦,不违反巴基斯坦法律。尼泊尔、斯里兰卡、不丹、孟加拉国都比不上印度,印度也没有任何边界纠纷,为什么印度只和中国和巴基斯坦有边境纠纷呢?

even to this day chinese people did not forget japanese atrocities of WW2, how can indians forget partition, war etc and its effect on both sides of India (Bangladesh & Pakistan).

直到今天,中国人还没有忘记日本在二战期间的暴行,那么印度人怎么可能会忘记分治、战争,以及它对印度的邻国(孟加拉国和巴基斯坦)的影响。

 

Gowindan Nampoothiri, former General Manager (Retired ) at Reserve Bank of India

1962 No Indian can forget

1962年,没有印度人会忘记

A big cheating from a neighbor .Indians believed blindly.Our PrimeMinister had signed no war pact with Chaina based on Panchasheel the five cardinal principles of friendship and peace.Our primeminister Javaharlal Nehru was confident that China will never attack India and said army is not needed for India and they should be used for agriculture. India was totally unprepared.We were even had no good guns in hand !!

这是邻居的滔天谎言,印度人盲目相信。我们的总理没有和中国签署任何基于友谊和平五项基本原则的战争协议。我们的总理贾瓦哈拉尔·尼赫鲁自信中国永远不会攻击印度,他说印度不需要军队,他们应该用于农业生产。印度完全没有准备。我们甚至没有好枪在手!!

China attacked in India in 1962.We could not do much.A lot of Indian land is still with China.The great cheating taught us a lesson.Now Indian Forces -no comparison !!.Sure India 2017 is not India 1962.

中国在1962年袭击了印度。我们无能为力。许多印度土地仍与中国接壤。巨大的欺骗给了我们一个教训。现在印度军队——无可比拟!!当然,2017年的印度已经不再是1962年的印度。

 

Vijay Bhat, Team Leader at Aman Movement (2012-present)

The war of 1962 was a historic turning point in history and future of India.

1962年的战争是印度历史和未来的一个历史性转折点。

India after fre m was living in the dream of non violence we thought if we are non violent it means we will have no enemies. It is said that PM Nehru once said that we don't need any army.

独立后的印度一直生活在非暴丽的梦想中,我们认为如果我们是非暴丽的,就意味着我们将没有敌人。据说尼赫鲁总理曾经说过我们不需要任何军队。

We lived in dream of Hindu chini bhai bhai.

我们生活在印度中国亲如兄弟的美梦中。

When chines attacked we were least prepared no weapons no preparedness for war and Nehru's policy of dominating army and subjecting them to humiliation through various policies have broken the morale and aggressiveness of armed forces and lesson was humilating defeat of 1962 but unlike our friend Pakistan we soon learnt lesson soon modernisation of army started at highest level and military pacts were signed with various nations which was earlier against our non alignment policy. And the result of this morale of army begin to rise. USSR supplies with latest weapons and technology and whose result we saw in 1965 wen our army crushed pakistani army.

当中国攻击我们时,我们没有一丝一毫的准备,没有武器、没有战备,尼赫鲁的控制军队,并通过各种政策打压武装部队的士气和侵略性,导致了1962年巴基斯坦的耻辱失败,但与我们的朋友巴基斯坦不同的是,我们很快得到了教训,迅速自上而下开始进行军队现代化,签署了与不同国家的军事协定,这些国家早先曾反对我们的不结盟政策。军队士气开始高涨。su联提供了最新的武器和技术,我们在1965年见证了我们的军队粉碎了巴基斯坦军队。

 

Kala Subramanian

I am not an expert on the Indo - China war of 1962.

我不是1962年中印战争的专家。

But over the years I have read a little about the actual war and the atmosphere before and after it.

但这些年来,我读了一些关于战争实录和战争前后社会背景的书。

The Indo - China border was largely quiet and did not have strife . Then the Chinese takeover of  Tib .

印中边界大多数情况下都是平静,没有冲突的。然后中国接管了xz

India looked anxiously at the events across the border but did not interfere . It was still building up a very fledgling country and was very constrained on resources .

印度焦急地注视着边界事件,但没有干预。它仍在建设一个羽翼未丰的国家,资源非常有限。

India was meanwhile happy and the folks even had a slogan for it Hindi- Chini Bhai Bhai. Essentially translated as Indian - Chinesese Brothers Brothers . This was one of the highest social honors that could be given by an Indian - to call you as family.

与此同时,印度人也很高兴,他们甚至为印度中国亲如兄弟制作了标语。基本上翻译成印中兄弟。这是一个印度人所能给予的最高的社会荣誉之一——称呼你为家人。

When China attacked India in 1962 , it was a country not prepared for an invasion from the “family” . Needless to say India lost the war. But more importantly Indians felt betrayed and since then never fully trusted the Chinese .

1962年中国袭击印度时,这个国家还没有准备好迎接“家人”的入侵。不用说,印度输掉了这场战争。但更重要的是,印度人感到被背叛了,从那以后就再也没有完全信任过中国人。

Meanwhile these days given the Chinese track record on international forums where it seems to block all Indian votes and agenda , India still does not have a reason to drop the mistrust.

与此同时,鉴于中国在国际论坛上的一贯表现,它似乎在阻止所有印度人的投票和议程,印度仍没有理由放弃这种不信任。

It not that we don't like the Chinese .. we do. We deeply admire them as well but just don't trust them at the borders .

并非我们不喜欢中国人…我们喜欢他们。我们也很钦佩他们,但只是在边境上不信任他们。

 

Subhash Mathur, Masters International Relations (1970)

In India most citizens did not even consider china as an adversary till the Dolakm standoff made the headlines . Till,then for Indians only Pakistan mattered . Suddenly they find another powerful neighbour on a different border .

在印度,在动郎对峙成为头条新闻之前,大多数印度人甚至都没把中国当作对手看待。直到那时,对印度人来说,巴基斯坦才重要。突然,他们在另一个边界上发现了另一个强大的邻居。

So I would venture to say most Indians born after 75 are blissfully unaware of the after effects of the 62 conflict or even the conflict itself . In the minds of most Indians under 40 India is the most powerful country in Asia . And India can defeat Pakistan left handed .

所以我敢说,大多数75岁以后出生的印度人都很幸福,没有意识到62年冲突的后果,甚至冲突本身。在大多数40岁以下的印度人看来,印度是亚洲最强大的国家。印度可以用左手打败巴基斯坦。

But when confronted with china they have no no clue or idea about its strengths or what happened in 62 . Some are ven suggesting that India should simply nuke china and get over the doklam standoff .

但当面对中国时,他们对中国的实力和62年发生的事情一无所知。一些人甚至建议,印度应该简单地用核武器攻击中国,并克服动郎僵局。

But we all know that 62 conflict set Indian economy back by several decades and has hampered India's march to become a super power .

但我们都知道,62次冲突使印度经济倒退了几十年,阻碍了印度成为超级大国的进程。

 

Satvik Tandon, B. Sc Statistics & Economics, K.C. College (2020)

Well until recently no one India neither cared nor thought about 1962. Its mentioned with one or two pargraphs in out textbooks. Since India has never seen any hostile actions from China which could kead to war, its generally only mentioned in books.

直到最近,所有印度人都对1962年不感兴趣,也没有人想过这个问题。在教科书中有一两个段落提及这段历史。印度从未见过中国采取敌对行动、引发战争,它通常只在书中提及。

Then the recent Dokhlam situation happened. Intially the situation didn't affect Indians, we have seen LOC violations from Pakistan for years, its like a weekly event for us. So news if LOC violations wasn't a big deal.

然后最近发生了动郎事件。很明显,这种情况并没有影响到印度人,我们已经看到巴基斯坦多年来违反人全的行为,这对我们来说就像是每周都会发生的事情。如果新闻报道了实际控制线越线事件,那就没什么大不了的。

But then Chinese go nment tweeted about India should remember 1962. India tweeted back with India is not the same as it was in 1962. And now the 1962 conflict is on the front stage.

但后来中国在推特上说印度应该记住1962年。印度回复的推特是我们已经与1962年不一样了。现在,1962年的冲突已经登上了头版。

 

Ray Comeau, A decade in China, interest in geopolitics

I have know a number of Indians, all of whom are well educated.

我认识一些印度人,他们都受过良好的教育。

Indians are rightly very proud people of their history, and upon being given their independence from the UK in ’47 (?) they saw a bright future for the country.

印度人有理由对自己的历史感到自豪,在47年脱离英国独立后,他们看到了这个国家的光明未来。

However since then a few things have happened. the Indian sub-continent was divided by the Brits, setting up a security situation between India and Pakistan, which was exacerbated by the Kashmir situation, which has become entrenched in stalemate on both sides.

然而,从那以后发生了一些事情。印度次大陆被英国分裂,在印度和巴基斯坦之间建立了一种安全局势,克什米尔局势加剧了这一局势,双方陷入僵局。

Having suffered conflicts on border issues with both Pakistan and China, Indians are very sensitive on these past events.

在与巴基斯坦和中国的边境问题上遭遇冲突后,印度人对过去的事件非常敏感。

It is a matter of pride for many Indians. It has not helped that the Indian go nment at the time, has not allowed open disclosure of the events, while India media pounds out Indian nationalism, every time something happens with another country.

这是许多印度人的骄傲。当时的印度政府不允许公开披露这些事件,而印度媒体在每次发生与另一个国家有关的事情时,都会打压印度的民族主义,这于事无补。

There are many in India that believe media reports the Indian military pushed back the Chinese in ‘62.

在印度有很多人认为媒体报道说印度军队在62年击退了中国人。

 

Ashok Ghai, former Owned a Construction Co, Now Retired (1967-2010)

1962 defeat was a nightmare for India that made us wake up from slumber. Otherwise, we would have lost the war against Pakistan in 1967. Pakistan thought so and attacked. But the preparedness of our army was such intense in 1967 that our army converted the advancing battalion of Patton Tanks into a tank graveyard. This astonished the entire world because Patton Tanks were considered invincible by then. The defence research organisation of India had developed a secret weapon to combat Patton Tanks. My friends from army told us the details about that weapon in a meeting of IIT Roorkee Alumni Association at Kanpur. When fired, this weapon fell near the tanks and then exploded in a big way. Thus, 1962 defeat was a blessing in disguise for us at least in some way.

1962年的失败对印度来说是一场噩梦,让我们从睡梦中醒来。否则,我们就会在1967年输掉对巴基斯坦的战争。巴基斯坦正是这么想,才发动了袭击。但是我们的军队在1967年的战备准备工作是如此的紧张以至于我们的军队把前进的巴顿坦克营变成了坦克墓地。这震惊了全世界,因为巴顿坦克当时被认为是不可战胜的。印度国防研究组织已经开发出一种秘密武器来对抗巴顿坦克。在坎普尔举行的印度理工学院鲁尔基校友会的一次会议上,我的军队朋友告诉了我们有关那件武器的细节。当它开火时,这个武器会落在坦克附近,然后爆炸。因此,1962年的失败至少在某种程度上是我们塞翁失马,焉知非福。

 

Siva Kumar, works at Self-Employment

It is not just the question of border skirmish, it runs deeper. If you contrast the situation with that of Pakistan, you will appreciate it better. Indians are clearly aware of Pakistan’s attitude towards India. Pakistan’s attitude has always been the same, that of hostility. Thus, Pakistan doesn’t particularly shock India. Indians do not have any expectations from Pakistan.

这不仅是边界冲突的问题,而且是更深层次的冲突。如果你把情况与巴基斯坦进行对比,你会更好地理解它。印度人很清楚巴基斯坦对印度的态度。巴基斯坦的态度一直是一样的,那就是敌视。因此,巴基斯坦并不特别震惊印度。印度人对巴基斯坦没有任何期望。

India’s relationships with China run deeper, closer and warmer. Nehru was a firm believer in the ideal of Afro-Asian Unity. He enjoyed excellent mutual trust & friendship with Generalissimo Chiang Kai-Shek and his wife. Chiang and Madame sympathized with India’s cause and more than once requested USA to use its influence with Britain (to grant Independence without delay).

印度与中国的关系更加深入、密切和温暖。尼赫鲁坚定地信奉亚非团结的理想。他与蒋介石委员长及其夫人建立了良好的互信和友谊。蒋和夫人同情印度的事业,不止一次地要求美国利用其对英国的影响力(毫不拖延地承认独立)。

Nehru believed that China and India together could achieve an unassailable place in the world. Till the 1962 war, Nehru had had unshakable and absolute trust in China. He actively supported China in the UN. The Hindi Chini Bhai Bhai (Indians and Chinese are friends) ideal is an excellent instance of the trust India (read, Nehru) had in China. And the whole country echoed Nehru’s sentiments and trust.

尼赫鲁认为,中国和印度共同能够在世界上取得无懈可击的地位。直到1962年的战争,尼赫鲁对中国有着不可动摇的绝对信任。他在联合国积极支持中国。印度人与中国人是朋友,印度人与中国人是朋友,印度人与中国人是朋友。整个国家都响应了尼赫鲁的情感和信任。

I am not sure if ordinary Chinese are aware of the Indians’ view of the events that eventually broke India’s trust in 1962. Here is a link to one of my old answers -

我不确定普通中国人是否知道印度人对最终在1962年破坏印度信任的事件的看法。这是我的一个老答案的链接-

 

Siva Kumar's answer to Why do some Indians think it is China that invaded and betrayed India in 1962 while the fact has suggests otherwise?

But, given the background of implicit & unconditional trust, Indians truly felt betrayed and even stabbed in the back as Nehru exclaimed.

为什么一些印度人认为是中国在1962年入侵和背叛了印度,而事实并非如此?

但是,在这种隐性和无条件信任的背景下,当尼赫鲁(Nehru)大声疾呼时,印度人真的感到被背叛,甚至在背后捅了一刀。

 

Achal Gautam, lives in India

Indo-Sino war is an important milestone in history of Republic of India.

This was a national humiliation and the generation after generation is reminded about that humiliating loss. When I was growing up, my grandfather used to tell me stories of the war.

中印战争是印度共和国历史上的一个重要里程碑。这是一种国耻,一代又一代的人想起了这一耻辱的损失。我小时候,我祖父常给我讲战争的故事。

This was the lowest moment of Indian history after independence. Indian Armed and political leadership failed in their primary duty to protect India. At a few places in Eastern sector, well-fed and well-armed Indian army units lacked will to fight and they withdrew. But in western sector, Indian Army showed the glimpse of their will to defend India to the last men. I think that Battle of Rezang La was one of the finest hours in the Indian military history.

这是印度独立后的最低点。印度的武装和政治领导层未能履行保护印度的主要职责。在东部地区的一些地方,营养充足、装备精良的印度军队缺乏战斗意志,于是撤退了。但在西部地区,印度军队显示了他们对保卫印度的意愿。我认为雷藏拉战役是印度军事史上最辉煌的时刻之一。

Had China not attacked India, India would have been caught by surprise by Pakistan in 1965 war. India would have anyhow won the war (in case of a lengthy war) but India would have suffered heavily in initial days. After 1962 debacle, India gave more attention towards military preparedness and this proved to be decisive in 1965 war.

如果中国不攻击印度,印度就会在1965年的战争中被巴基斯坦打得措手不及。无论如何,印度会赢得这场战争(如果是一场旷日持久的战争),但在最初的几天里,印度会遭受重创。在1962年的溃败之后,印度更加注重军事准备,这在1965年的战争中被证明是决定性的。

India had never faced any threat from North till 1962.

直到1962年,印度从未面临过来自北方的威胁。

1962 war ended Nehru’s dream to be a leader of developing and non-aligned nations. Hardly any neighboring country diplomatically supported India. India had supported fre m movement of many Asian & African countries but everything went into vain.

1962年,战争结束了尼赫鲁成为发展中国家和不结盟国家领导人的梦想。几乎没有任何邻国在外交上支持印度。印度曾支持许多亚非国家的紫游运动,但一切都徒劳无功。

Pakistan realized that India is a weak nation and they can take Kashmir forcibly from India.

巴基斯坦意识到印度是一个弱小的国家,他们可以从印度强行夺取克什米尔。

 

Balaji Viswanathan, Knowledge lover.

Although the 1962 Sino-Indian border conflict is not really a full war [combined casualties about ~2000 and about 2 weeks of fighting], for India there was a broad significance:

尽管1962年中印边境冲突并不是一场真正的全面战争(战斗大约持续了两周,造成2000左右的人员伤亡),但对印度来说,这场冲突具有广泛的意义:

For nearly two centuries now, Indian army has got into the habit of winning. The defeat in 1962 is a standout and thus has hurt the nation’s pride and ego.

近两个世纪以来,印度军队已经养成了胜利的习惯。1962年的失败是一个特例,伤害了国家的骄傲和自尊。

It is a rude reminder that it is China, not Tib, that is our new neighbor. For many millennia India had gotten used to a friendly northern border.

它粗鲁地提醒我们,中国才是我们的新邻居,而不是xz。几千年来,印度已经习惯了北部边界的友好。

The conflict was a big ruse for strengthening the security apparatus.

这场冲突是加强安全机构的一个大计谋。

Indian army’s understated achievements

印度军队低调的成就

Of the major militaries in the world, it is India that has held one among the perfect records in winning. Indian army was a key element in the emergence of Britain as a superpower. British Indian Army won great honors in both the World War I and the World War II. Its victory in the landmark Battle of Kohima was the key turning point that led to Japanese retreat and defeat.

在世界上的主要军事力量中,印度一直保持着完美的胜利记录。印度军队是英国崛起为超级大国的关键因素。英属印度军队在第一次世界大战和第二次世界大战中都获得了极大的荣誉。在具有里程碑意义的科希马战役中取得的胜利是导致日本撤退和战败的关键转折点。

(图)

Post-independence, Indian army effortlessly took the kingdoms of Junagadh [Annexation of Junagadh] and Hyderabad - a kingdom of the size of Great Britain [Indian annexation of Hyderabad]. In Kashmir, it had a geographical, demographic and timing disadvantage and still retained most of the Kashmir region [Indo-Pakistani War of 1947].

独立后,印度军队毫不费力地占领了朱纳加德(兼并朱纳加德)和海得拉巴(一个相当于大不列颠大小的王国)。在克什米尔,它在地理、人口和时间上都处于劣势,但仍保留了克什米尔地区的大部分地区(1947年印巴战争)。

In 1961, India warred a NATO ally - Portugal - and easily won to takeover Goa [Annexation of Goa]. In 1972, it cut Pakistan into two in barely 13 days [Pakistani Instrument of Surrender] - the biggest loss of territory in modern times in such a short time. When there was a coup in Maldives, India got it restored in a day [1988 Maldives coup d'état]. When it had to takeover Sikkim, it did with the least fuss - Sikkimese monarchy referendum, 1975.

1961年,印度与北约盟国葡萄牙交战,并轻易赢得了对果阿的吞并。1972年,它在短短13天内将巴基斯坦一分为二——这是近代在如此短的时间内最大的领土损失。当马尔代夫发生政变时,印度在一天之内就恢复了(1988年马尔代夫政变)。当它不得不接管锡金的时候,它做得最少——1975年的锡金君主制全民公投。

The one defeat it had in nearly 2 centuries was with China. The high altitude and the element of surprise, put Indian military out of gear. Although the war was very short, didn’t really lead to a territorial loss [just formalized the loss the uninhabited Aksai Chin] and not even really a war [with mere 2000 casualties and a 3 week span], it is a blemish in our military’s record.

它在近两个世纪中唯一一次失败是与中国。高海拔和出其不意的元素,使印度军队失去了装备。虽然战争很短,并没有真正导致领土的丧失[只是将无人居住的阿克赛钦的丧失正式化],甚至也不是真正的战争[只有2000人伤亡,持续了3周],但这是我们军队记录中的一个污点。

Although the Indian army got a part revenge in winning the smaller 1967 [Nathu La and Cho La clashes] conflict and a stalemate in 1987 conflict [1987 Sino-Indian skirmish], the wound remains.

虽然印度军队在赢得1967年那场较小的冲突(纳苏·拉和乔·拉冲突)和1987年冲突(1987年中印冲突)的僵局中获得了一定程度的报复,但创伤依然存在。

India wakes up to a new neighbor

印度在一个新邻居面前醒来

If you take the traditional neighbors of India - Tib, Iran, Afghanistan, Nepal, Burma, Sri Lanka - you could see a deep cultural relationship that India has shared. Many of the countries looked up to India and there was a quite level of familiarity.

如果你看看印度的传统邻国——xz、伊朗、阿富汗、尼泊尔、缅甸、斯里兰卡——你会发现印度有着深厚的文化渊源。许多国家都很尊敬印度,对印度也很熟悉。

India especially had an excellent relationship with Tib. Thus, the borders were never relevant in that region.

印度与xz的关系特别好。因此,这些边界在该地区根本无关紧要。

 

As China got serious about the border in the late 1950s, India tried an unsuccessful “forward policy” where it tried to push its borders as much as possible into Tib. In 1962, China truly put the danger to India and it was the shock Indian populace needed that they finally got a very powerful and unfamiliar neighbor. Unfamiliarity scares people.

上世纪50年代末,随着中国对边境问题的认真对待,印度尝试了一种失败的“前进政策”,试图将边界尽可能多地推进到xz。1962年,中国真的给印度带来了危险,而印度民众需要的是震惊,他们终于找到了一个非常强大、陌生的邻国。不熟悉恐慌的人。

A ruse to get the domestic population united

使国内人口团结起来的计策

On the whole, the 1962 war worked in favor of the Indian go nment.

总的来说,1962年的战争对印度政府有利。

They doubled the military and created the key intelligence agency - RAW. In a decade, it went nuclear. A little after that, it acquired the key border kingdom of Sikkim and later gave full state status to Arunachal Pradesh - that used to be a frontier in the 1962 war. The go nment put a strong emphasis on high altitude warfare that got it the Siachen glacier 2 decades later.

他们把军队扩大了一倍,建立了一个关键的情报机构——RAW。十年后,它研究出了核能。在那之后不久,它获得了关键的边境王国锡金,并在后来给予a邦完全的国家地位——在1962年的战争中,“a邦”曾是边界。政府高度重视高海拔战争,因此在20年后才有了锡亚琴冰川。

To get all this strength, the go nments had to keep the public reminded about the 1962 “war”.

为了获得所有这些力量,政府不得不让公众想起1962年的“战争”。

 

三泰虎原创译文,禁止转载!:首页 > 印度人看中国 » 对印度人来说,1962年中印战争真那么重要吗?

()
分享到: