三泰虎

你希望中国在崛起的道路上失败吗

我曾经在中国待了四年半。在那儿,我遇见一位非中国籍的女性,并且和她结婚,我们拥有很多好的变化。当然现在我已经不在中国了。总的来说,那是一段美好的体验,虽然有一些挫折,但并没有一些人所说的真正可怕的事情发生。就像许多人那样,我对中国经济的未来并不乐观。显而易见的是受保护的上层阶级很擅长维护他们自己和他们朋友的利益(不包括其他人)。

译者:易燃易爆炸
来源:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com/bbs/thread-375962-1-1.html
外文:https://www.reddit.com/r/China/comments/3qpeaz/do_you_want_china_to_fail_why_or_why_not/




I lived in China for four and a half years. I'm out now, met and married and a non-Chinese wife there, and we've saved a good chunk of change. Overall I say it was a good experience, but still had some frustrations, but nothing really awful that some have had here.

我曾经在中国待了四年半。在那儿,我遇见一位非中国籍的女性,并且和她结婚,我们拥有很多好的变化。当然现在我已经不在中国了。总的来说,那是一段美好的体验,虽然有一些挫折,但并没有一些人所说的真正可怕的事情发生。

Like many I really don't see a good future for China Economically. It seems that the protected upper class are very good at helping themselves and their buddies which doesn't include anyone else. Sure they lifted a good portion of their country out of absolute poverty, but now we have a middle class that is filled with angst and at least on the surface nationalism and petty rhetoric on man-made islands among other silly things. But I hate the idea of somehow having Western countries having to change to the Chinese rules. I want China to fail economically, and the bullies that are full of hot air to be taken down a notch or three. Who cares about 'face'. After four years in China, I'm really suspicious the fact that my country is thinking of letting China in 'the circle of trust'. I want China and its empty rhetoric to fall flat on its face. I feel terrible saying this, but I don't think I'm alone in this feeling.

就像许多人那样,我对中国经济的未来并不乐观。显而易见的是受保护的上层阶级很擅长维护他们自己和他们朋友的利益(不包括其他人)。当然,他们让一部分人从绝对贫困中脱离出来,但是我们现在有一个充满焦虑的中产阶级群体,表面上非常的民族主义,至少对南海造岛和其他一些破事儿颇有微词。但是我讨厌西方国家某种程度上必须改变对中国策略的想法。我希望中国经济崩溃,让那些夸夸其谈仗势欺人的混蛋低调点。没人在乎“面子”。四年后回到中国,我真心怀疑我的国家正在考虑将中国纳入“信任圈”。我希望中国和他空洞的辞令能够丢脸受挫。很抱歉说了这样的话,但是我认为并不是只有我才有这种感觉。

I think it comes from the fact that some expats and I came to China thinking that this country was the next 'big' thing. As in this is where the money is made, let's embrace our Asian tiger and learn from it. Once I realized we wouldn't be let in, and there was really no method to the madness I became disenchanted and just used China for money and something interesting on my CV. I found myself drinking 25 kwai beers on special with long-term expats and just laughing at the absurdity of everything here. I wasn't a bad foreigner I think, but if someone was in my home country, I think I would expect them to play along with our rules. I'm aware of my hypocrisy but when many wealthy Chinese come to Canada, England, America, etc. they don't change at all, don't make an effort to integrate, and just walk around with a certain smug face and frankly I did the same thing when I was in China.

我想这种情况基于一个事实,一些外国人和我来到中国,认为这个国家将是下一个“超级大国”。因为这儿有大量的财富被创造出来,让我们拥抱亚洲虎并像他学习。然而一旦我意识到,我们并不真的容许进入(社会主流),所有方法(不论正道或者旁门左道)都不能达到目的,我开始变得沮丧,仅仅把中国看做一个赚钱的场所,同时让我的履历增添一点有趣的东西。我不知不觉就和长期外派的外国人喝了25块钱的啤酒,一起嘲讽这里荒谬的一切。我想我并不是一个坏外国人,但是如果有人到了我的祖国,我希望他们能够遵循我们的规则行事。我意识到我是如此的虚伪,然而很多有钱的中国人到加拿大,英格兰,美国等等。他们根本不做任何变化,也不做任何努力去融入社会,仅仅是带着自以为是的表情到处闲逛。当然我在中国也做过同样的事情。

I feel like China wants to be in the country club, but once he started showing up, he was the kinda guy that was wearing a suit from 10 years go, refused to take a lighthearted joke, and started changing the subject to his favorite topics. Now he's a member he wants to quickly change the rules to always benefit him and the new friends he wants to bring with him that are just as bad. Now we see regular members are upset, and this new guy just doesn't take the hint, and he's even more obnoxious and started interrupting conversations and now uncomfortably hitting on the President of the club's wife! Now we are exposing this awkward guy for who he is, he really doesn't belong, but he's not stopping and no one is coming forward to kick him out once and for all. But in the meantime everyone will cringe whenever he opens his mouth.

我感觉中国想加入国际俱乐部,但是他一亮相就是个穿着十年前旧西装的土气男人,拒绝接受轻松的玩笑,同时把话题改为他最喜欢的。现在他已经是国际俱乐部的成员,开始想要快速地改变世界规则,令其永远对中国和他的小伙伴们(中国带来的,和他一样的坏)有利。现在我们可以看到原来的正式成员都不满,但是这个新来的家伙一点都没有领会到(这一点),他开始打断别人的对话,甚至看上了俱乐部主席的老婆!!这更让人觉得厌恶和不舒服。现在我们都知道他是个棘手的家伙,他真的不属于这里,但是他不会停止,也不会有人将他一劳永逸地踢出国际俱乐部。但在此期间,无论他什么时候开口,每个人都会卑躬屈膝。

I like to think I'm pretty open minded and easy going, but I found myself cheering when the stock market fiasco hit. I don't know exactly what changed, but it just seemed that I cheered when some rich but hollowed Chinese business guys lost a couple of million on short-sales or property speculation. Or laughing to myself as I read an article when China has 7% rise in GDP and just lie about everything. /China is great for that. How did I get so negative?

我想我是个开朗随和的人,但是当(中国)股灾来临的时候,我发现自己欢呼雀跃。我不知道到底是什么改变了。然而当一些有钱却虚伪的中国商人短期亏空几百万或者投资房地产失败,我都很高兴。当读到一篇文章说中国gdp成长7%,只是谎言(中国很擅长说谎),我忍不住大笑。我怎么会那么消极?

Well anyway thanks for reading my wall of text, I've talked about this a couple of times with some beers in China with unanimous agreement. I'm curious to reddit's feeling? /China is pretty negative sometimes, but honestly I feel the same way a lot of you do too. I'm glad I'm out for the most part, and maybe I would come back to China with my salary doubled and a good collection of face masks. So everything does have its price I suppose. I wish all of you in China the best of luck, and let the good days there outnumber the bad. You really do miss good Chinese food when you're out.

无论如何感谢你们阅读我的文章,在中国我就这个话题和许多酒友谈过,并且一致同意(我的观点)我很好奇论坛上的网友怎样想的。中国有时候确实很消极,但是说实话,我同样感到有很多可做的。绝大多数情况下我都庆幸自己离开了中国,但是也许我该回去领双倍的薪水和重拾口罩收藏的爱好。所以我想每件事都有其代价。我衷心祝愿在中国的各位能够好运,好事多于坏事。当你在离开中国,你将相当想念中国菜。

Final edit. Thanks so much for the conversation, time to submerge and be a lurker once again. I think I was a bit too hard in China, but I really would like less ego from the people pulling the strings. I'm not a believer, but somehow I really would like some of the people who really screw others over (foreign or Chinese) to have some sort of penance, but I know that's wishful thinking. I don't have any bad intentions to anyone's Chinese friends or family, poor peasants or many others stuck in difficult situations that are at the mercy of the upper class.

最终编辑,感谢这么多的回复交流,是时候再次潜水了。我想我在中国的时候是有些艰难,但是我希望那些别有用心的人不要太自我。我不是信徒,但是那些抨击欺辱其他人(不论是外国人还是中国人)的家伙最好有点忏悔心,但我知道这只是一厢情愿。我对任何中国人或家庭、贫困农民、在上层阶级的怜悯下艰难求存的人们都没有恶意。

I hope all of you enjoy your time in China and know when it's time to say good-bye on your own terms. I've seen too many foreigners boozing it up, and scared shitless to get back to their own country. Always have a plan, because some days China will kick your butt!

我希望你们都能享受在中国的时光,而且知道什么时候说再见。我看过太多的外国人四处买醉,害怕回到自己的国家。你总得有个计划,因为某天中国会踢你的pp(叫你滚蛋)!

Even if it was contrary to my opinion, thanks to your contribution!

尽管有些人的意见和我不同,还是感谢你们的回复!

评论翻译:



[envatted_love 17 指標 20 天前
Absolutely not. /u/jingzi_factory put it quite well. In general, state failure is not good. I do hope the Chinese government liberalizes further though.

I'm aware of my hypocrisy but when many wealthy Chinese come to Canada, England, America, etc. they don't change at all, don't make an effort to integrate, and just walk around with a certain smug face and frankly I did the same thing when I was in China.

Good for you for recognizing this. Many don't.

当然不希望,你说的非常好。总的来说,国家衰弱不是个好事情。但我希望中国政府能够进一步开放。
“很多有钱的中国人到加拿大,英格兰,美国等等。他们根本不做任何变化,也不做任何努力去融入社会,仅仅是带着自以为是的表情到处闲逛。当然我在中国也做过同样的事情。 ”
很高兴你能意识到这一点,很多人不能。

 
[ingzi_factoryMongolia 46 指標 20 天前
Of course not.

Economic weakness in China almost certainly would be contagious
I don't want to see Chinese people, especially close ones, be in a worse position
Political instability could kill a lot of people

Unfortunately, I don't think the way the government is handling things will help fix that. I think that if relinquishing control of some aspects of society could help improve the economy, I would do it as a leader, but the CCP seems too hellbent on maintaining control, which will only bite them in the long run.
Ideally, China gradually reforms and becomes a more open and free society, as it had been doing a decade ago.

当然不希望。
1、中国的经济疲弱绝对会传染到(全球)。
2、我不希望看见中国人,特别是和我关系好的,陷入困难的境地。
3、政治形势的不稳定能够杀死很多人。
不幸的是,我不认为政府的处理方式能够解决这个问题。我想如果能够在某个方面放弃国家管控对经济提升有好处。如果我是领导人我就这么干,但是tg好似不是这么想,他们坚持国家干预,这会长时间地拖经济后腿。
理想情况下,中国将逐步进行改革,并成为一个更加开放和自由的社会,这个过程在十年前就开始了。

 
Calam1tousUnited States 12 指標 20 天前
Agreed. Above all, I just want the Chinese people to be better off.

同意,首先就是让中国人民更富裕。

 
palbuddy1234[S] 3 指標 20 天前
Well isn't that the thing about governments? The number one goal of any government official is to maintain their control, and their high status? As another poster said, I do want an ego-check though. I was sick of the 'silly foreigner, you don't understand China'. I never was highly critical in front of a Chinese person (it's just rude IMO) but sometimes I wondered if they could see the forest from the trees.

(国家干预)那不就是政府所做的事吗?任何政府官员的头号目标难道不是维持他们的控制以及他们的地位?正如另一张海报所说的,我确实想要一个自我检查。我厌倦了“愚蠢的外国人,你不了解中国”。我从来没有在一个中国人面前进行批判(这是一个粗鲁的行为),但有时候我想让他们知道“一叶障目,不见森林”(总体看问题,不要着眼于局部)

 
TheDark1 8 指標 20 天前

The number one goal of any government official is to maintain their control, and their high status?

Wait, did G.W. Bush firebomb the white house on the way out the door? What do you mean? Most governments put the good of the nation about the good of the rulers.

“任何政府官员的头号目标难道不是维持他们的控制以及他们的地位? ”
等下,布什在出门的路上会把白宫炸毁吗?【不知道什么梗】你到底什么意思?大多数政府都把国家的利益放在统治者的利益之前。

 
sturle 0 指標 19 天前

Always have a plan, because some days China will kick your butt!

Always have a plan, and go for it before China chicks your butt.

你总得有个计划,因为某天中国会踢你的pp(叫你滚蛋)!
是啊,在中国叫你滚蛋之前实行计划。

 
Aan2007 2 指標 20 天前*
sadly since in eyes of majority of Chinese China=CCP I have to say i wanna see China fail even when it will hurt my family, but people in general should get real and open their eyes in what an shithole without laws they live if this means it should be followed by some country where rule of law is followed, people have to deal with consequences of their actions and majority of population should realize where they stand in the world from their selfcentered arrogant view ingrained in them by government and start to act civil and civilized and stop being selfish communist pigs who see only themself always above everyone around them with zero respect for other people rights

可悲的是在大多数人眼里,“中国=中国共产党”。我不得不说我希望看见中国失败,尽管这会伤害到我的家庭。中国人该醒醒了,睁开你们的眼睛,看看这该死的现实吧!你们生活在没有法治的社会里。这意味着你们应该追随(学习)那些法制国家,人们必须承担自己行为所造成的后果。大多数人都该从政府给你们灌输的根深蒂固自我为中心的观念中清醒,认识自己在这个世界中真正的定位,同时开始学习举止文明,变得有礼貌,而不是变成自私自利的共产主义。(他们将自己凌驾于他人之上,一点都不尊重他人的权利。)

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