从这里了解印度人对中国的看法

【续】最近在印度一个论坛上发了一个帖子,收到很多回复(3)

2014-08-19 19:21 66个评论 字号:

1

译者samzhanglei:最近关注了三泰虎的论坛,感觉很多印度人对中国的看法就是专制,警察国家,没有皿煮自由。所以专门发了一篇帖子到印度论坛上,收到了一部分印度网友的回复,分享给大家。

(注:为了方便大家查看更新的评论部分,所以另开一篇】

译者:samzhanglei
来源:http://www.santaihu.com/2014081903.html

刚才忘了加上他引用的这一段了:

democracy a western thing… do you even know that even lord budhdha’s father was a democratic elected leader of its people… we have democracy from vadic period…. so first learn and then say all shit.. you don’t know a thing about indian democracy or Indians so don’t use the language you used.

你知道甚至如来佛祖的父亲是一个被人民民主选举的领导么?我们从古代就有民主。
所以你第一次知道所以所的都是粪,你不知道印度民主或者印度人不用你所用的语言。

我当时有点小愤怒,不就是如来佛祖么,我们尧舜禹还是禅让呢!

It is just like you do not know Chinese, in thousands about 6-7000years ago, we have serveral ancestors King, they were elected by the people.

It was in original period, people liked to elect the stongest man to lead them, they used abdicate and hand over the crown to another person to shift the King, they were called Yao, Shun, Yu, if you know Chinese History. Until a son of one king steal the King position, then it came to Slavery society, then feudal society. China has the longest Feudal Society in the world. Imperial power was very powerful just like god in our acient, the emperor was called son of Dragon. They had natural rights to rule the poeple. They occupied all the wealth of society, people’s living was their gift. They forbidded and burned all the books to propagate freedom and killed the people having freedom thinking.

就如你这种人根本不了解中国,在6-7000千年,我们有一些古代的先人通过选举的方式推选强大的人为国王,他们是尧舜禹,如果你知道中国历史的话。直到有一个皇帝的儿子窃取了国王的位置(是鲧的儿子吧?),然后中国进入奴隶制社会,再就是封建社会。中国有着最久的封建社会历史。古代皇权的力量非常强大就像神一样,皇帝自称天子,龙之子。他们天赋权利统治人民,占据社会财富,百姓的生存是他们的恩赐。他们禁止并且焚烧宣传自由的书和杀死有自由思想的人。

In your comments you use the words “junk creating nation”, it is your educated words? Why your people just bought the junk products and shouted what rubbishes they are, Can I call it is making base? We do not ask you and drive you to buy, and you can buy good quality products, they are expensive, but cheaper than European products, or what is the most important, you can produce by yourselves.

You are just the person just talking Chinese government controlled the media, Chinese people know nothing, what a stupid thinking it really is!

在你的评论里。你用了垃圾制造民族,这是你所谓受教育的词语?为什么你们的人民购买这些垃圾产品然后哭喊着说多么垃圾的产品。我能说这是犯贱么?我们没有要求逼迫你们去买,你可以买质量好的产品,它们价格高,但也比欧洲的便宜,或者最重要的是,你们可以自己生产啊。你就是这种人,只会说中国政府控制媒体,中国人民什么都不知道,多么的愚蠢!

Due to your uneducated words, I think it is no need for me to show the politeness to you. Have you come to China? Do you how the Mullims lived in China? In my town, we have a lot of “The hui autonomous village”, I attended their Corban Festival many times! Do you know when a Han people fighted with Hui people, if not death happend, the Han people will be punished by police? Do you know Hui people’s Child will have 10 marks awarded when college entrance examination? Do you know Hui and other nations can have many childrens but Han which has the biggest population? You have not come and lived in China, and know nothing, you just believe Youtobe and google? If so, you are just a fool.

For British, I see many comments of you, they said British saved them and brought them civilizations, do you know it?
I do not where you got your courage to show the arrogance, just as stupid as a frog in the well.

由于你的不文明用语,我想我没必要回与你礼貌。你去过中国吗,你知道穆斯林在中国怎么生活吗?在我的县,有回族自治村,我参加过他们的古尔邦节很多次!你知道如果一个汉民和回民起冲突,只要不是死人的刑事案子,一般受惩罚都是汉民吗?你知道回族学生参加高考有10分加分吗?你知道少数民族可以生多个孩子,而汉族人只能生一个吗?你什么都不知道,你只相信YouTube和谷歌?如果这样,你就是个傻瓜。

对于英国,我看到你们好多评论说英国拯救了你们带来了文明,你看过吗?我不知道你哪来的勇气去展示傲慢,就像愚蠢的井底之蛙一样!

接着收到那位客观的印度大叔的回复:

A few months back, grandfather of one of my Taiwan friend died. He was a retired General who fought for the KMT during the war, his older brother was also a KMT officer who was captured, but after the release, he married and settled in China. When the grandfather of my friend died, there were lot of people not only from Taiwan (military and Civil) but also from China (civil and ex-military) who had come for his funeral. They are based in Tainan. Being 3rd Generation Taiwanese, he was surprised to see so many people from China coming to his grandfathers funeral.

几个月前,我一个台湾朋友的祖父去世了。他是退休的将军,曾经在战争中为国民党军效力。他的哥哥也是名国民党军官但是被俘虏了。他哥哥被释放后,结婚并留在了中国。当这个朋友的祖父去世时,来吊唁的并不光是台湾内部军队的人,还有很多中国大陆来的军方的人。他们家住在台南,已经是台湾的定居的第三代了,他非常惊讶看到这么多大陆的人过来参加他父亲的葬礼。

Anyway, India and China technically are neighbours and sure there are going to be small arguments, but it is interest of both the nations to address these arguments and try to correct them as they happen. Both countries are developing we are not super powers yet, China has a better economy at this point of time, but it was reached a slowdown, our economy was also reached a slowdown but that we attribute to an indecisive leadership and we are all hopeful that now is golden time of India. But that also puts China and india on collision course. Both countries have big requirements of resources and markets and the both resources and markets are limited and soon, both the countries will be at loggerheads to get more investment, fuel, business, opportunities. In China, the labour is not so cheap as it was 2 decades ago, the cost of living has risen quite high. the only way to keep labour cost low if the industry is shifted to more western China where cost of living is much lower, it is like going to a different country when compare to eastern cities like Qingdao, Shanghai, Ningbo, Hangzhou etc.

不管怎么说,印度和中国是邻居,虽然确实有一些小的争论,但是由于民族间的共同利益,当争论发生时应该去纠正。双方国家都有发展,我们都不是超级大国。这个阶段中国经济发展更好,但是也在放缓。印度经济也放缓,我们把这归结于犹豫不决的领导者。我们都希望这是印度的黄金时间。但是这也让中印有所冲突。两个国家都需要巨大的资源和市场,但是资源和市场很快就变得有限,两个国家为了得到更多的投资,燃料,生意和机遇而相持不下。在中国,劳动力从近二十年来看已经不再便宜,生活的成本变得很高。如果想让劳动力价格保持低的状态,许多工业就得迁到中国西部,这就是为什么在中国西部和东部的青岛,上海,宁波杭州这些城市相比,就像两个国家。

About democracy, I am of the point that when a country is big and diverse as India, one cannot really have a democracy. Democracy works for smaller and more uniform sample. Democracy as I understand would fail in China considering many provinces and many different people, and languages (mandarin is main language but people have different languages and accents) and then when there are differences, there is good chance of bias. For democracy to work, the potential leaders should connect with almost every person within their area, which we know by experience in India is impossible because leaders sort of become larger than life and the only way we can see them is in posters.

there is no real perfect way for democracy, it best worked in ancient greece where population and area was small and hence everyone almost knew everyone. Now it is next to impossible to have it.

关于民主,我的观点是当一个国家很大时而且多样就像印度,是不可能有真正的民主的。民主适合于小国或者更统一的例子。据我了解的民主在中国会失败,考虑到许多省许多不同的人民,还有语言(普通话是主要语言,但是人们有不同的方言),越是不同的地方越容易产生偏见。对于民主生效,潜在的领导者应该联系他们区域的每一个人,这在印度的话根本不可能,因为领导人比生命重要的多,你只会在海报中看到他们。

没有真正完美的民主,民主最好的时候是古代的希腊,有非常少的人口和领土,因此每个人知道都有的人。现在很难拥有那种情况。

看法还是非常可观,还是需要多跟这种人交流才长见识。

他接着说:

as you are aware the south China sea has potential reserves for natural gase and petroleum products, and each country wants to protect its area, China claiming the entire South China seas, almost just to leave small maritime area to the other country is taken as a ridiculous claim. Other Countries are not happy about it. China which is arming itself with new 5th Gen planes, 10 aircraft carrier on order, maybe it is to keep its defence forces in top shape, so are we, but in case of China as well as India, it does affect the neighbours. Pakistan in return is trying to spend more on defence. But unlike China, its neighbours are not spending much on defence they are not capable economically. And aggressive acts by China PLAN and PLAAF in area which is internationally reocognized as being in Vietnam, China did conduct drilling, and this is considered an act of aggression. You might be aware that recently there was uproar inVietnam against Chinese, this was due to such provocation.

你知道南中国海有潜在的天然气和石油资源,每个国家都想保护这一区域。中国宣称拥有整个南中国海,只留给其他国家很少的海域。所以其他国家认为这是很滑稽的宣称。

其他国家对此不开心。中国装备有5代战机,10艘航母在预定中,这可能让它的防御力到达顶点,印度也是。所以中国和印度这些行为影响着邻居们。巴基斯坦主要用于防御。但是不像中国,它的邻居没有花费在防御上,他们经济上不行。一些中国解放军海军和空军的攻击性行为在这些区域受到越南谴责,中国确实在进行石油勘探,这些行为被认为是攻击性的行为。你可能意识到最近越南反华游行示威,就是因为这些挑衅。

I agree that China has to grow and it has to spend on defence, but when such incidents happen, and the news that China spends few hundred billion dollars on defence each year, the smaller countries in vicinity of china feel threatened. You used the example of tiger, the countries in China vicinity see themselves as sheep and china as the aggressive tiger. Their economy does not support high defence spending specially to buy weapons to counter China. No country in South east Asia wants war, when there is war the economy reduces and the cost of living rises. Which is counter economy.

我同意中国因为成长需要花费力气防御,但是如果这样的事儿发生,如中国每年花费几千亿美金用于防御,中国的邻近的效果就会感到被威胁。你用了老虎的例子,这些邻近中国的效果会把自己看做羔羊,而中国是侵略性的老虎。他们的经济不支持高防御花费,

特别是购买武器反击中国。没有东南亚的小国希望打仗,如果有战争,经济会衰减,生活成本会增加,会削弱经济.

其实这些年我们国家一直在支持东南亚国家的发展。

我的回复:

I see it. I should not use that kind of example, it is not right. In fact, for the recent years, we are putting a lot of energy to help southeast asia countries to develop economy. But some countries, like Vietnam, if mentioning Vietnam, it is another story.

是的,我不该用那样的例子。事实上,最近这些年,我们一直在帮助东南亚国家发展经济。但是有些国家像越南。。提到越南,这是另一个故事。

When Vietnam fought with America, we sent soldiers to attend the war directly, after the war, they were poor, did not have resurse to rebuild their Country, we gave them food, weapons free of charge.(At that time, we also lacked of resurce). When we broke up with Soviet Union, they thought it was a changce for them to rise, and broke with us. They provoked us, shot our soldiers, killded our people at the volleage of board. We fought with them,

when our troops came their places, we found they used our weapons we supported them before, used our rices as defense sandbags… Donot believe they wanted to help Burma at that time…

We are only aware of Vietnam, we have very friendly relationship with other countries like Thailand, Burma..

当越南与美国打仗时,我们派遣士兵去帮助他们参展,战争结束后他们贫穷,缺乏资源重建国家。我们无权援助给他们粮食,武器。我们那个年代也很穷,缺乏这些。当我们和苏联关系破裂后,越南认为这是他们崛起的机会,然后和我们决裂。他们挑衅我们,杀我们士兵和边境住民。我们和他们打起来,当我们的部队过去时发现他们用的是我们支援给他们的武器,用粮食做防御沙袋。

不要相信那时他们是要帮助缅甸。。

我们只提防越南,我们和其他东南亚国家像泰国,缅甸等关系友好。



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