从这里了解印度人对中国的看法

穆迪政府排除公开亨德森·布鲁克斯报告的可能性

2014-07-14 07:12 47个评论 字号:

穆迪政府一个向后转,排除了公开亨德森·布鲁克斯(关于中印战争)报告的可能性。穆迪政府坚定地排除了公开亨德森.布鲁克斯秘密报告的可能性 ,从人民党原先所持立场来了个明显的180度大转弯,该报告分析了让印度饮耻的1962年中印战争大溃败。“ 这(亨德森.布鲁克斯报告)是份最机密的文件,至今尚未解密。全面或部分地公开这份报告、或透露任何与此报告相关的信息,都不符合国家利益,”星期二,国防兼金融部长阿朗.简特莱在印度联邦上院就一提问作出的书面答复这样说。

译者:ken
来源:http://www.santaihu.com/2014071401.html
外文:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/In-U-turn-Modi-govt-rules- out-release-of-Henderson-Brooks-report/articleshow/38024666.cms

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穆迪政府一个向后转,排除了公开亨德森·布鲁克斯(关于中、印战争)报告的可能性
(全球印度网民热议,少数有识之士为中国力辩)

In U-turn, Modi govt rules out release of Henderson Brooks report

穆迪政府来了个向后转,排除了公开亨德森.布鲁克斯报告的可能性

NEW DELHI: In a marked U-turn from the earlier stand taken by BJP, the Modi government has firmly ruled out the release of the classified Henderson Brooks report into India’s humiliating military debacle against China in 1962.

新德里:穆迪政府坚定地排除了公开亨德森.布鲁克斯秘密报告的可能性 ,从人民党原先所持立场来了个明显的180度大转弯,该报告分析了让印度饮耻的1962年中印战争大溃败。

2

“This (Henderson Brooks report) is a top-secret document and has not been declassified so far. Release of this report, fully or partially, or disclosure of any information related to this report, would not be in national interest,” said defence and finance minister Arun Jaitley, in a written reply to a question in Rajya Sabha on Tuesday.

“ 这(亨德森.布鲁克斯报告)是份最机密的文件,至今尚未解密。全面或部分地公开这份报告、或透露任何与此报告相关的信息,都不符合国家利益,”星期二,国防兼金融部长阿朗.简特莱在印度联邦上院就一提问作出的书面答复这样说。

The Henderson Brooks report squarely blames the then Jawarharlal Nehru government’s ill-conceived and ill-timed “Forward Policy”, without proper intelligence or adequate military preparation, for India’s abject defeat in 1962.

亨德森.布鲁克斯报告直言不讳地把当年尼赫鲁政府的’前进政策’斥为计划不周、不合时宜,既没有正确情报也没有足够军事准备,並导致了1962年印度的惨败。

When 87-year-old Australian journalist and author Neville Maxwell had suddenly released a major chunk of the report last March, in the run-up to the general elections, the BJP had then promptly seized the opportunity to attack the Congress for compromising the country’s military preparedness in the past as well as the present.

今年3月,当87岁的澳大利亚记者、作家内维尔•马克斯韦尔(Neville Maxwell)突然公布该报告的主要部分时,处在大选前夕的人民党及时抓住机会,抨击国大党始终在削弱国家军备。

The BJP, in fact, had demanded the report’s release on the ground that the country should know how the Nehru government had pushed the military into a war it could only lose. Jaitely himself, in a blog, had held it was not in larger public interest to keep documents “top-secret” indefinitely.

亊实上,人民党曾以国家应该知道尼赫鲁政府是如何把军队推向一㘯必输无疑的战争为由,强烈要求公开这份报告。简特莱本人在一个博客中坚持说,无限期地把文件作为“最高机密”保存,不符合更广泛的公众利益。

“Any society is entitled to learn from the past mistakes and take remedial action. With the wisdom of hindsight, I am of the opinion that the report’s content could have been made public some decades ago … Was the Himalayan blunder of 1962 in fact a Nehruvian blunder? Are we willing to learn the lessons from 1962?” said Jaitley, who was then the leader of the opposition in Rajya Sabha. Law minister Ravi Shankar Prasad, in turn, had said, “We have a right to know what went wrong. We lost the war because of Nehru … What are they (Congress) trying to hide by making the war report classified.”

“任何社会都有权从过去的错误中汲取教训並采取补救措施。前事不忘,后亊之师, 以我之见,这文件内容几十年前就可以公开了…1962年喜玛拉雅大漏子到底是不是尼赫鲁捅的?我们愿意汲取1962年的教训吗?” 当时身为上院反对党领袖的简特莱这样说。司法部长R.S.普拉蕯德也曾跟着发言,“我们有权知道哪儿错了。尼赫鲁导致我们的战争失败…把这战争报告存归密档,他们(国大党)想要隐瞒什么。”

以下为评论:

ash (Location)

we need to know the reason for change of mind , not the details .

我们需要知道改变主意的理由,不是细节。

Tribhuvan Mendiratta (KANPUR)

Not U Turn.. Realisation of responsibility of being in Govt.

不是向后转…意识到当政者的责任。

Morgan (Australia)

Disappointing, I wonder what they are hiding as the first part of the report which is already leaked was scathing enough about India’s failures.

让人失望,对印度失败猛烈抨击的报告第一部分已经透露出来,我奇怪他们还有什么好藏。

Honest citizen (Unknown) replies to Morgan

Let us not worry about it. It will be leaked out in the same way as the synopsis was out.

我们不用着急。报告內容会以概要同样的方式泄漏出来。

Morgan replies to Honest citizen

I would hope so, as you stated above, I don’t necessarily care so much as to the fact they continue to classify the report if they had a very good reason to, although the ones they give seem a bit like excuses, I mean seriously, the situation has changed so much since 1962 that it seems absurd that such a report still had current operational value (unless India was secretly hiding/planning a nuclear bunker in the region or something like that)

正如你所说,我也希望如此,如果他们有很好的理由继续保密报告,我还真不是太关心,但他们给出的象是借口。我意思是,说真的,自1962年以来情况已大为改变,这样一份报告还有现实军亊价值看来有些荒唐(除非印度暗中在那地区藏有/规划地下核设施或类似东西)。

bloggersuri ()

Forward policy means nehru launched an incursion into china. And the coubtry was thinking he was a peace shanti person. It makes nehru look brave. RSS not comfortable with that.

‘前进政策’意味着尼赫鲁发起了对中国的入侵,而国人还以为他是个和平化身。这让尼赫鲁看起来很勇敢。…

Brown American (USA)

India’s enemies (Pakistan-China-Sri-Lanka) know all about this report, India’s allies (Nepal, Bhuttan) know everything in this report, world powers know everything, India’s neighbors know every detail. From whom is the Hindu Nationalists hiding this report? I guess from Hindu Nationalists and some minorities who do not matter anyway.

印度的敌人(巴基斯坦 – 中国 – 斯里兰卡)知道报告全部, 印度的盟友(尼泊尔、不旦)也全面了解报告,世界上的强国什么都知道,印度的邻国了解所有祥情。印度教民族主义者掩着这报告防谁呢?我猜是防着无关紧要的印度教民族主义者和一些少数派。

Bibbo Bolriyala (Modi Land) replies to Brown American

I if you Pakistani know it, why don’t you write it here.

要是你巴基斯坦人知道,干吗不在这儿写出来。

vaishno devi (Arrowville)

Indians are ignorant idiots and intellectually lazy scum. Arun Jailtley and BJP have finally seen he light. Indians idiots should do the same. Rajat Pandit is a fraud. How does he know what is in Henderson Brooks report when it is top-secret classified? Henderson Brooks Report DID NOT blame Jawaharlal Nehru government.

印度人是无知的白痴、脑子迟钝的废物。A.简特莱和人民党总算明白了。印度白痴也要明白。拉贾特. 庞迪特是个骗子。亨德森.布鲁克斯报告是最高机密,他怎么会知道?亨德森.布鲁克斯报告没有责怪尼赫鲁政府。

Arjun (Purani Dilli) replies to vaishno devi

If Indians are idiots, why do you waste time in these Idiots forums…? Are you one of those so-called Idiots too?

要是印度人是白痴,干吗你费时在这白痴论坛…?你也是那所谓的白痴吗?

Prabhakarshukla ()

“its different when in opposition and different policy when in Government on same issue. ” This is how BJP has always worked in past. when in opposition they need propaganda machinery of shouting and seaming to defame Government, but now they are different. I only hope the some wisdom has prevail them and they have come to senses about sensitive issue like National security and National defence.

“台下台上对同一问题的政策不一样。” 人民党过去一直这么干。在台下他们需要宣传机器,大喊大叫抹黑政府, 现在他们換模样了。我只希望他们开点窍,对国家安全和国防这样的敏感事务恢复理智。

ShahJagdish ()

In what way,Henderson Brooks report will help in present situation? Better, the govt. Should concentrate on development of economy rather than digging dead woods.

亨德森.布鲁克斯报告对当前形势能帮什么忙?政府最好一心发展经济,别去翻陈年老谷子。

Arjun (Purani Dilli) replies to ShahJagdish

I think there may be shameful things in that report as a ‘nation’ and may be that is why Jeitly prefers to keep it classified now. but, otherwise, to reply to you point, those how dont know history are usually the ones who repeate it. So, history is such a subject that has to be always understood properly as much possible. And, by teh way, goverment has different departments to take care of different aspects, so economy can still be handled…

我想报告中有些让作为“国家”感到羞耻的东西,也许那就是简特莱现在更想把它保密的原因。但是,反过来,回复你的观点,那些不懂历史的人往往会重复历史。因此,历史是一门必须尽可能始终正确理解的学问。还有,顺便说一下,政府有不同部门照管不同事务,因此也能同时处理经济…

Morgan (Australia) replies to ShahJagdish

It won’t I suspect since the report will be detailing military intelligence that is over 60 years old with tactics, technology and conditions. However it may well disrupt the governments foreign policy options with consideration to China (assuming they don’t already know) and the public’s perception of China.

我猜他们不会去翻,因为报告会祥述60多年前的手段、技术和状况这类军事情报。然而它完全可能打乱政府考量中国时的外交政策选项(假设他们还不知道)以及民众对中国的看法。

Prabhakarshukla (Location) replies to ShahJagdish

it only helped during election and job is done. so it is better to bury this issue like Ram mandir< in Ayodhya and article 370 etc etc. thats how BJP mind works.

这个只在竞选时有帮助,现在竞选已经搞定。所以最好把这问题藏起来,就象Ram mandir、Ayodhya以及370条款等等一样。人民党的思维就是这样。

Bibbo Bolriyala (Modi Land) replies to Prabhakarshukla

Honestly, did you hear about this before this? I am hearing it for the first time. I am not sure how it helped them in elections.

老实说,在这之前你听过这种说法吗?我是第一次听到。我不知道这个怎么帮了他们竞选的忙。

tanmay chakrabarti (Unknown)

All Indian politicians are same.

印度政客都一路货。

jit piplani ()

All of our troubles started with Nehru.had sardar patel been at the helm of affairs it would have been a different story now!.we reap what we sow!!

我们所有麻烦都是尼赫鲁惹起的头。要是当时萨达尔.帕德尔主政,今天的情况就不同了!我们自作自受!!

vaishno devi (Arrowville) replies to jit piplani

t was all Sardar Patel’s fault. He wrote a letter to Nehru in 1950 to launch invasion into Tibet in 1950 What happened it 1962 was a domino effect set in motion by Sardar Patel and exploited Jansangh, Socialists and many others.

都是萨达尔.帕德尔的错。1950年他写信给尼赫鲁,要对xz发动进攻,1962年发生的事只是他已经弄成的多米诺效应连串反应,还利用了全印大众联盟、社会主义者和许多其他人。

Debarshi (Location)

Now my curiosity has increased even more with the report. Something big is being hidden in the Report otherwise BJP would not have lost this opportunity to embarrass Congress by releasing the Report. Something is there that is even stopping Congress’ biggest rival from declassifying the Report. Anyone has any access to Defence Ministry???

现在我对这份报告更加好奇了。其中大有文章,要不然人民党不会放弃这个公开报告、羞辱国大党的机会。有东西梗在那里, 连国大党最大的对手都不能解密这份报告。谁有路子通国防部???

Morgan (Australia) replies to Debarshi

Part one is freely available on the internet for download, although I understand it is blocked in some Indian sites by the government.

第一部分在网上随便下载,尽管我知道政府屏蔽了一些印度网站。

Bibbo Bolriyala (Modi Land) replies to Debarshi

It could be something that could embarrass the nation. China still claims Arunachal Pradesh. Any sensitive info on that could be stopping them.

其中可能有让国家难堪的东西。中国还在声称拥有阿鲁那恰尔邦(注:中国称藏南)。任何有关的敏感消息都可能阻止他们。

sudhansusonali ()

Who wants, release of Henderson Brooks report ? Gone those days blame game. Those game has no relevance at the present juncture. Mr. Modi Govt believe in present and quite optimistic . Good luck carry on……………………………….

公开亨德森.布鲁克斯报告,谁稀罕啊?相互指责的游戏过时了。那些游戏与目前局势无关。穆迪先生的政府相信现在, 很是乐观。继续说吧,祝你好运…

Morgan (Australia) replies to sudhansusonali

The matter isn’t so much about the report itself, rather it is because it demonstrates a level of hypocrisy that he was willing to capitalize on something to get into power, yet once he gets in does exactly the same thing as those he replaced.

问题与报告本身没多大关系,而是因为挑开了那层虚伪,让人看到他热切地利用某些东西获取政权,而一旦上台,做法与他取代的前任又一模一样。

Brown American (Dallas, Texas)

It is not what Modi government is hiding, it is why? Anyone any idea?

不是问穆迪政府在藏掖什么东西,是问为什么?有谁知道什么?

Morgan (Australia) replies to Brown American

Part 1 gives you a pretty good idea, the document, whilst straying away from politics where possible, is pretty firm in it’s assessment of what led to the war, and contrary to Indian mass media, it wasn’t Chinese aggression… so on the surface of it, the reason to keep it classified seems political.

第一部分给人一个相当不错的概念,这文件尽量避开政治,对导致战争的原因给出了自已相当确定的评说,而且与印度大众媒体截然相反,不是中国人入侵…因此就表面看来,继续保密的理由象是政治方面的。

Bibbo Bolriyala (Modi Land)

It could have some information that can create problems in North East states. Some revelations that can truly damage our relationship with people from Arunachal Pradesh etc. Chinese still claim the areas as theirs. Some reports one can not reveal unless people move on completely away from it and are not vulnerable anymore. Jaitley obviously did not know the content before, but now that he has access to that classified report, he might have realised he was wrong. It definitely has more than the Nehru blunder.

它可能含有会在一些东北区的省分弄出麻烦来的内容。有些披露会真正伤害我们与阿鲁纳恰尔邦(注:中国称藏南)等州人民的关系。中国也还在声张对这一地区的主权。有些报告不能公开,除非人们对这完全释怀,再不会因此而感冒。简特莱以前明显不知道内容,但他现在可以读到这报告,可能意识到他以前错了。里面肯定有更多文章,不光是尼赫鲁的大败笔。

Solemn KP (India) replies to Bibbo Bolriyala

Well when someone like you who is not in politics, can think of such possibilities of disturbance in north east states,then how come such a senior politician like Mr. Arun Jaitley could not realize this and demanded such foolish demands during congress government?

嗯,象你这样不在政界的人都能想到在东北省份(注:争议地区)出乱子的可能性,那为什么简特莱先生这样一位资深政客以前却认识不到,还在国大党执政时提出这样愚蠢的强烈要求?

Vineeth (Bangalore) replies to jontrack

Bibbo Bolriyala replies to Solemn KP

Conflict of interest. Because with Nehru’s name mainly in the leaked part of the report, one can easily think it’s in Congress’s interest not to publish it. But when a BJP guy stops it inspite of a good opportunity to embarrass Congress, that means something more is there for sure.

利益冲突。因为泄露的报告章节中主要提到尼赫鲁的名字,人们很容易想到是为了国大党的利益而不公开。但当人民党人物也把它按下,尽管这是个羞辱国大党的好机会,那就肯定意味着还有更多花样。

jontrack (India)

Nehruvian blunder or cogressi blunder. It all boils down mis-rule for past 65 years by congress and its cronies.

尼赫鲁败笔还是国大党败笔, 说到底都是国大党及其亲信65年的误国统治。

Vineeth (Bangalore) replies to jontrack

After five years, those 65 years will look like golden age of modern, democratic, independent India.

再过5年,那65年看起来就象现代、皿煮、独立印度的黄金时期。

D. Vijay (Los Angeles, US)

Pathetic! What national interest can be served by not declassifying the report which is available anyway? This is inexplicable

可悲!这报告到处都能看到,不给它解密,能为哪些国家利益服务?不可思议

Bibbo Bolriyala (Modi Land) replies to D. Vijay

Where is it available?

在哪里有?

Morgan (Australia) replies to Bibbo Bolriyala

Part 1 is available on Neville Maxwell’s website. It’s a fair sized PDF being a scanned copy of an old document (129,137 Kb)

第一部分登在Neville Maxwell的网站。是老文件的扫描本,PDF格式,文件还不小(129,137 Kb)

Che Mir (Unknown)

Can people file a law suit against the then Government led by Nehru for negligence and deliberately putting the lives of our Army in harms way? If a political party or a Government can take all the appreciations and fruits of a win they should be held responsible for the ill conceived losses too. It is often said that India responded to Chinese aggression then when we responded why was it half hearted? Why was IAF not used? Why that request was denied? Why did the then secretary denied repositioning our troops and importing rifles and Guns that were asked? A war was thrust upon us, Nehruvian failed Tibet policy is partially to be blamed but it was a criminal negligence to deny the tools that IA was asking to fight the Chinese off. We were winning. Chinese were not strong but it was the Government’s failures and arrogance that eventually failed the Army.

…。一㘯战争突然推向我们, 这部分要归罪于尼赫鲁失败的xz政策,但是印度空军所要求用以打击中国人的装备遭到拒绝,这是疏忽犯罪。我们在赢得局面。中国人並不强大, 但政府的失策和傲慢最终导致军队的失败。

Morgan (Australia) replies to Che Mir

What if, just what if the commonly held view in India that the war was started due to Chinese aggression is untrue? I’ve read part one of the report and various other documents surrounding the outbreak of the war and the more I look into it, the more it seems like the Chinese were actively trying to avoid a war. They telegramed Nehru 3 times prior to the outbreak of the war to request negotiations on the Forward Policy, all of which were ignored. The first fighting happened on the Chinese side of the disputed border… it makes it bit tough to justify the whole story of backstabbing Chinese when you read into the details.

印度的普遍认识是战争由中国侵入引发,要是,仅仅是要是,这个认识与事实不符那该怎样?我读了报告的一部分和围绕战争爆发的各种其它文件,我越是深入,看起来就越象是中国在积极设法避免战争。战争爆发前夕,他们给尼赫鲁发了3次电报,要求就’前进政策’举行谈判,所有这些电报都未被理睬。第一㘯战斗发生在争议边界的中国一侧…当你读到细节之处,’中国背后捅刀’这整个故事就难以自圆其说了。

harpaulsingh ()

Perhaps this is a sensitive issue and can be left aside. We will see U turns on many other issues also like women safety, corruption, terrorism etc. After all it is in politics ABC doesn’t matter.

也许这是个敏感问题,可以搁在一边。我们会看到在许多其它问题也调转回头,比如女性安全、腐败、恐怖主义等等。要知道这是政治的基本法则,没什么大不了。

Squarepeg (Location)

Don’t blame the politicians. The armed forces have also a lot to hide, and need to protect their senior officer corp’s credibility.

别责怪政客。军队也隐瞒了许多事情,需要以此来维护高级将领的声誉。

Asfar H (Unknown)

according to wikileaks CIA used India as its lunching pad against China promising Nehru that USA will help him in case China attack, and CIA with Indian intelligence started gorilla training for Tibbetians and due to this China attacked Indian, but USA never helped in this war

根据维基解密,CIA利用印度作为攻击中国的跳板,向尼赫鲁保证,万一中国发动攻击,美国会提供帮助,並且CIA和印度情报部门开始在xz训练游击队,为此中国打了印度,而美国从未在这㘯战争中帮过忙。

vaishno devi (Arrowville) replies to Asfar H

USA DID help India and so did USSR. That’s why China ran away.

美国帮了印度,苏联也帮了。中国就因为这个才跑了。

Morgan (Australia) replies to vaishno devi

Partially, but it was always China’s objective to withdraw as soon as the Cuban missile crisis died down. Their military objective was not to capture territory, but to demonstrate military superiority in a defined time frame, something they achieved.

这是部分原因,而中国的目的始终是一旦古巴导弹危机平息,就尽快收兵。他们的军事目的並非抢占领土,而是在一个特定的时间段内显示它的军事优势,他们做到了。

vaishno devi replies to Morgan

This is nonsensical speculation that has no rationality. Cuban Missile Crisis was heading for annihilation world with nuclear arsenal ready to launch. Your claim that china could know “when and how it begins and ends” is laughable.

这是个荒谬的猜测,一点也不合理。当时核弹发射准备就绪,古巴导弹危机就要毁灭世界。你说中国能知道“什么时候开始,什么时候结束” ,真是好笑。

Morgan replies to vaishno devi

I never claimed they knew any such thing, but it did factor into their timing. After they began operations however, it was never intended as a sustained effort to capture Indian territory, China’s own releases show that their objective was to secure their western “border”, push India out of the disputed territory and teach India a “lesson”; all 3 of which I think they accomplished.

我从没说过他们知道这种亊情,但这确实体现在他们把握的时机之中。他们开战以后,不管怎样,从没想以持久的努力来抢夺印度领土,中国自己的声明显示,他们的目标是确保西部“边界”,把印度赶出争议区域並给印度一个“教训”;我认为所有这3点他们都做到了。

vaishno devi replies to Morgan

To the contrary, Chinese claimed that they will not leave NEFA in their ceasefire offer that was rejected by Nehru. If they really claimed they accomplished their “border”, there should have been no border dispute today. So, they did not accomplish ANY objective. Sorry!

恰恰相反,中国在停火建议中声称他们不会离开’东北边境特区’,遭到尼赫鲁的拒绝。如果他们真的宣称保全了“边界”, 那么今天也不该有边界争端了。所以说,他们什么目的也没达到。对不起啦!

vaishno devi replies to Morgan

How would China know when Cuban Missile Crisis would die down? Even USA/USSR did not know. Indeed they wanted to show military superiority but it too backfired when Cuban Crisis suddenly get over. That’s why they ran away before winter set in.

中国怎会知道古巴导弹危机能平息?连美国、苏联都不知道。他们确实想要显示军事优势,但古巴危机的突然结束也让他们反受其害。这就是为什么他们在冬天降临之前跑了。

Morgan replies to vaishno devi

They didn’t know when it would die down, but kept an eye on the situation and when the tides turned, they also pulled back.

他们不知道危机什么时候会平息,但一刻不停地关注局势,风向一转,他们就撤退了。

vaishno devi replies to Morgan

Correct! Nehru too kept eye on situation, turned the tide around and forced Chinese back. Instead of being grateful, Indians stab Nehru in back and stomach.

对呀!尼赫鲁也时刻紧盯形势,扭转了风向並迫退了中国人。印度人不但不思感激,反而对他前捅后刺。

Mohandas (Doha)

Nehru made so many mistakes which affected and are still affecting our developments

尼赫鲁犯了那么多错误,影响了我们过去,直到现在还影响我们的发展

vaishno devi (Arrowville) replies to Mohandas

Nehru DID NOT make ANY mistakes. That’s what Arun Jaitley found out.

简特莱发现尼赫鲁什么错误也沒犯。

Morgan (Australia) replies to vaishno devi

I would strongly argue that the Forward Policy was a mistake, as was the refusal to negotiate with the Chinese on a permanent border settlement, and the refusal to strengthen military preparedness whilst simultaneously pursuing an aggressive strategy.

对此我要大声争辩,’前进政策’就是个错误,拒绝与中国人谈判划定永久边界、拒绝加强军备的同时又采用冒进策略,也都是错误。

vaishno devi replies to Morgan

..like I said, NEHRU DID NOT MAKE ANY MISTAKES!

…正如我说,尼赫鲁沒犯任何错误!

Morgan replies to vaishno devi
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Query: how can you defend the forward policy, whilst at the same time condemn China’s incursions into the disputed territories? Are they not one and the same in nature? I would argue the forward policy is even more aggressive as it actually established permanent military structures in areas of dispute.

在遣责中国人入侵争议地区的同时你怎么能为’前进政策’辩护?它们不是同样件事同样性质吗?我要说’前进政策’更具侵略性,因为它实际上已在争议地区建起永久军事设施。

vaishno devi (Arrowville) replies to ChandraMohan Edthala

Indian idiots don’t even understand warfare. Chinese ran away like dogs. Any other nation would claim victory. Only Indian idiots can call it “humiliating” and “defeat”.

印度白痴们连什么是战争都不懂。中国人夹着尾巴跑了。随便哪个国家都会因此宣佈胜利。只有印度白痴,还能把这叫做“耻辱”、“失败”。

Morgan (Australia) replies to vaishno devi

They won, pure and simple. They set a military object, accomplished it and withdrew. India failed in accomplishing it’s objective. The rest of the world acknowledge they won, your denial of that matter won’t change the result behind the 1962 war.

他们赢了,简单完胜。他们设定一个军事目的,达到目的后撤退了。印度没有达到目的。世界上所有其它地方都承他们赢了,你的拒绝不会改变1962年战争结果。

Rajender (BAND WAGON)

Is it so highly sensitive that it will strain the relations of Indo- China further?

是不是这高度敏感,会使中印关系更为紧张?

Morgan (Australia) replies to Rajender

Possibly, I think that would be one reason to reasonably withhold the report, the other being it would seriously damage Indian domestic sentiment so soon after an election, in which case it should be withheld for a period of time then released when things are more stable.

有可能,我认为这可能是搁置报告的一个合理解释,另一个理由是,大选刚结束,这可能严重伤害印度国民感情,所以要拖一段时间,等形势更稳定时再公开。

Rajeev S (Jhumri Talaiyya)

If Modi comes out with report in public, Congress will be reduced to 4 seats in next election.

如果穆迪把报告公开,国大党在下次大选时就缩成4个席位了。

bloggersuri (Location) replies to Rajeev S

If that was the case BJP would have done it in a flash. This report makes Nehru look good that he was the aggressor. People were told china attacked us.

要真是那样,人民党瞬间就把这亊办了。这份报告让尼赫鲁看起来不错,他是侵略者。人民却被告知中国进攻了我们。

raman.raman3 ()

Foreign policy requires pragmatism according to times. It is a known fact the Nehru and Krishna Menon in their over enthusiasm of Hindi Chini Bhai Bhai attitude failed to see the design of China and botched up the war and but for the US intervention China would have swallowed vast area of Indian land and the dispute is till going on. As the Modi Govt is trying to create a good rapport with China declassifying the docs will,lead to unnecessary wrangles with China and so it is good that the old issue be buried as no use will be served out of that as Congress got the punishment it deserved from the people.

外交政策需要有适应时代的实用性。已知事实是,尼赫鲁与梅农过分热情的’中印兄弟’态度,让他们看不出中国的图谋,搞砸了那㘯战争, 而且要不是美国干涉,中国早已侵吞大片印度领土,还会继续争执。眼下穆迪政府正设法创建与中国的友好融洽关系,解密这文件会导致与中国不必要的争论,还是把老问题封存起来好,人民已经给了国大党应有的惩罚,因此解密也起不到作用了。

Morgan (Australia) replies to raman.raman3

Going from what we have available, it was never Chinese intention to capture and hold Indian territory as part of the 1962 war. Their whole objective was to push India out of the disputed territory which both sides claim and in their own words “teach India a lesson”.

从现有资料来看,1962年战争中,中国从来都没有夺取占有印度领土的用意。他们整个目的就是把印度从双方都声张主权的争议地区赶出去,並且,用他们自己的话来说“给印度一个教训”。

vaishno devi (Arrowville) replies to Morgan

Nobody would EVER say we will capture “their territory”. India too NEVER expressed any intent to captue “Chinese territory”. It is always OUR territory!

从来都没人会说我们要抢夺“他们的领土”。印度也从没表达过要抢夺“中国领土”。那一直就是我们的领土!

Squarepeg (Location) replies to raman.raman3

This is not about China, but the failure of the political and military leadership of India. China never hid the fact that it does not recognise the McMohan Line the British drew. India and China were playing a game of one-step forward half-step back. Nehru thought his standing in the world and China’s relative isolation will make the Chinese blink first. He lost the gamble. Lots of ordinary Indian families lost their sons.

这不是在说中国,而是在说印度政治和军事领导人的失败。中国不承认英国人划的麦克马洪线,他们从不隐瞒这一事实。那时印度和中国在玩进一步退半步的游戏。尼赫鲁认为他在世界上的地位和中国的相对封闭会让中国先退却。他输了游戏。许多普通印度家庭失去了儿子。

vaishno devi (Arrowville) replies to Squarepeg

NO Nehru DID NOT LOSE ANY GAMBLE. It was that Nehru’s World Standing that rallied world around India and China ran away. Else, you would now be writing in Chinese.

没有,尼赫鲁没输掉任何游戏。那是尼赫鲁的地位让世界都支持印度,中国跑掉了。另外,你是在写中文吧。

Morgan (Australia) replies to vaishno devi

What makes you say that? The Chinese did not have the capacity to push deep into India and they knew it. There was no way they could have won a protracted war against India and so they stuck to a fundamental lesson from the “Art of War” – “He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot, will be victorious.”

你根据什么那样说?那时中国人知道他们没有能力推进到印度腹地。他们根本不可能赢得对印的持久战,因此他们坚持运用了“兵法”中的基本一条“知可战与不可战者胜”

vaishno devi replies to Morgan

Correct! India too did not have capacity and knew it. Nehru and Krishna Menon exactly understood Chinese since those two negotiated peace in Korea. Nehru too understood when he can fight and when he can’t. That’s why he did not deploy Airforce but rallied USA/USSR instead – which was plan all along. In case you don’t know, Chinese too regret war with India. They both gambled and both suffered setbacks. Indians have hidden agenda to drag Nehru thru mud. This issue is no more serious than that.

正确!印度也沒能力也清楚这个。尼赫鲁和梅农参加过朝鲜谈判,对中国人了解得一清二楚。这就是为什么他没调动空军而是争取美国、苏联的支持 – 这早在计划之中。恐你万一不了解,告诉你中国也懊悔与印度一战。双方都下了赌注也都遭受挫折。印度人有不可告人的目的要把尼赫鲁拖下水。这个问题不比那个更严重。

Morgan replies to vaishno devi

” Chinese too regret war with India” – That has been made plentifully evident in all publications made by the Chinese since the end of the war. They have never relished the conflict, nor to they condemn Nehru.

“中国也懊悔与印度之战” – 这一点中国在战后所有刊物上充分表白。他们从来没喜欢过这㘯冲突,也没遣责尼赫鲁。

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  1. 和中国的乡工党一个尿性,在台下时表现得好象很为国家民族着想,上台后,为了维护自己的权力不择手段。

    • 天下为能者据之。。。你有本事占领地球。。。让俺们当牛做马啊。。。告诉我那个政府或者政党愿意随便放弃权利和理念。。。说别人的时候都好嘴着呢。。。你要上去不定怎么鱼肉人民呢。。。看你着尿性注定干一辈子碎催。。。既做不到实事求是,也做不到趋炎附势。。。哎。。。当好人你不想,坏人又不要你。。。悲剧人生啊。。。 🙁

    • 国家权力的瓦解,对人民有什么好处?像印度、泰国、台湾、伊拉克、阿富汗、乌克兰、非洲这样的民猪,不要也罢,祸国害民。
      中国千百年来,封建皇朝也罢,一党专政也好,只有政权更迭,从无国家分裂,难道苏老大哥的悲剧活生生的摆在那里,国人都看不见?
      今天的中国,在法律道德的框架内,论安全,论自由,输过哪个国家?别说什么人泉/言论自由,你们这些外毛心目中的灯塔,米离奸合众国本来就不是什么好鸟,当然论法制健全,兔子现在是比不上人家,但是兔子成立才多少年,混乱了多少年,真正发展了多少年,再给兔子几十年的和平,真正的大唐帝国就归位了,可人家现在给你和平吗?各种闹、各种挑衅。
      引用那谁谁的话,你们这些外毛,懂个屁。 😆

  2. 清醒的三哥是越来越多,墓地倒地在干什么,把宣传机器开动起来,人糊涂的时候才好糊弄 😀

  3. 从某种意义上说,我支持莫迪的掩盖的做法。不是一直掩盖下去而是暂时掩盖下去。三哥现在没有硬起来的本钱(工业、物质生产等都不到位)。等有了本钱之后,再改变吧。
    改革开放之初,尤其是90年代初的时候,中国人由于了解到了自身的落后才抛弃了之前一些可笑的观念奋起直追。到2010年前后干掉日本成为世界第二后,外媒开始抨击中国人瞧不起外国人了。考虑到时空背景差异,这也间接揭示了一种规律:衣食足而知礼节。没有了基本实力,谈心理成熟是不切实际的。就像现在的三哥一样。等三哥有了点实力之后,或许他们会接受开国总理的错误。当然,也可能他们永远不会接受,因为我怀疑永远不具备那种实力。

    • 个人以为。。。知不知道都会开骂。。。已三哥的人口数量和智商。。。三哥注定得延续悲催的命运。。。 🙁

    • 如果阿三要撅起了,绝对属于那种小人得志,各种无名得瑟,到处骚包显摆的傻逼。看看他们怎么对待土鳖以外的周边国家就知道,要是丫的哪天能压倒土鳖,更不会承认什么过错了。应该这样说,只有哪天阿三能大肚到认真检讨自我,反省过去了,三锅才有机会(还只仅仅是机会哦)赶上我鳖。否则,呵呵,就那点出息了

  4. 左手三的愚民政策是最好的政策,封闭政策也是最好的政策,继续封闭一切消息为好,否则公布了当人们了解了真相之后就会面对现实,一场挥之不去的心理阴影最好能折磨硬度们多几十年,醒觉之后的硬度对中国非常不利,一个人口众多的硬度的强大对中国绝对不是件好事,各方面都会跟中国竞争的,只使竞争不过也会恶心死中国的。

  5. 就像一个人,如果年轻之时跟对手碰到了一件事,那件事的心理阴影如影随形的伴随了自己几十年,纠结了几十年,这就是心理死结,整天记住这个事还用做好其它事吗,如果中国当初不是暂时抛下小日本侵略中国的仇恨,积极的缓和跟小日本的关系,我想这几十年发展也不会那么顺利了。

  6. 绝对不能解密。绝对不能让任何人知道:实际上,不是中国入侵了我们印度,而是我们印度入侵了中国。——虽然这明显得就像镜面上的苍蝇屎,但每个印度人都应该坚信,那只是我们脸上的一颗美人痣。没错,对此我们深信不疑

  7. 棕色奴开始知道自己输了,但是还有一种虚幻的道德优越感“眯眯眼从背后捅了刀子“
    但是在真相面前,棕色奴发现原来是自己自不量力,炫耀武力,结果被暴扁一顿,在全世界面前像个SB一样被干的死去活来
    最悲剧的是,全世界都知道的事情,偏偏就是一群棕色奴被他们的政府洗脑,这是最大民煮国家喔!

  8. 怎么?记得三哥过去普遍的说法是“中国背后捅刀子”—-,早先还说他们打败了中国军队—–,这,这是怎么回事?难道三哥清醒了吗?我一直认为,三哥容易被政客操弄,过去是,现在是,将来还会是,他们不可能有自已的思维,更不可能有理智的判断,他们政客很早就把中印边界冲突的责任推给了对方的中国,就象他们的官僚善于推卸责任一样,总得找个合乎道德的故事讲讲吧,然而事实就是事实,失败者想掩盖事实是很难滴,全世界都清楚谁在“背后捅刀子”,不就是口喊“兄弟”的尼赫鲁吗?记得62年正是中国自然灾害的第二年,中苏矛盾又出现公开化,美蒋不仅封锁中国,而且还在东南沿岸搞“反攻大陆”,任何常理都可证明中国此时无心发动战争,然而尼赫鲁开始喝恒河水啦,他认为时机已到,于是裹挟边界问题,搞什么“前进政策”,支持藏独分裂势力,并帮助训练西藏叛乱武装,进而在中国西南方向向中国发难,中国三面楚歌,北面苏联大兵压境,东南沿海美蒋反攻,西南又出现了自称“兄弟”的印度大兵,然而经历过几十年战争洗礼的中国是吓大的吗?北面加强了纵深防守,东南打退了美蒋进犯,西南开始反击印度的入侵挑衅,仅一个军三万人打得印度30万大头军满地找牙,什么是战力?什么是执行力?要不怎么说中国陆军是世界极的呢?在中国陆军眼里,印度那就是屁!在印度羡慕的美日军眼里,也许会出现嘲笑中国空军和海军的,但他们有嘲笑中国陆军的世界地位吗?不要跟我谈三哥空军没有出动,既使出动了会改变战争结局吗?你三哥空军比美国空军都牛吗?一个不大的边界冲突让三哥耿耿于怀,还想报这62之仇,怎么报?当年面对印度大兵的也就一个军,而现在却是几个军团,嘿嘿!“十万打击军”如同草莽,牙缝都不鸲塞,胡弄民意吗?印方若选择对抗,还会走当年的老路,而且更惨,邻居无法选择,但如何相处可以选择!与邻为善,和平相处应该是印度唯一可以正确选择的相处方式。

  9. 相比两年前,三哥都开始提“前进政策”了,还有一部分人接受是尼赫鲁挑衅引发了战争的观点,不能不说是进步啊~

  10. 这份报告完美的描绘出一个完整的印度人的形象,骄傲自大却又外强中干,本以为占据天时地利人和(美苏支持,达赖叛逃,中国灾害积弱),想要大咬中国一口,结果却是美苏甩手,军备不足,战斗力低下,反被抽耳光,这结果绝对比62年战败这一事实更加打击民族自尊心,墓地还敢随便公布么 😆

    • 真敢公布了,受打击的恐怕不仅仅是民族自尊心,还有印度政府公信力的破产——原来政府一直都在蓄意欺骗民众!

  11. 印度政客之所以不敢公开这份报告是因为如果公开会打击阿三们脆弱的名族自尊心(尽管他们从来都是当仆人和奴隶的料),会使阿三占领的争议地区在民众中失去合法性,将会影响到藏南地区的稳定和给我国声讨领土的藉口。阿三政客再愚蠢,作为搞政治的,也不会为了自己一派的利益(攻击国大党提高自己党派的政治地位)而去损失阿三的核心利益,从这点来看,印度政客比起傻逼的乌克兰政客还是稍微成熟点的。

  12. 如果这个穆迪也有亚洲人的睿智,知道发展是第一要务,实力是强大的基础。那么不久以后公布真相,还历史真面目而顺应发展潮流与中国友好合作,那么亚洲真的从此强盛而无可匹敌。如果这个穆迪也只是一个贪腐的政客,隐瞒真相,与反华势力亦步亦趋,那么只是磨砺中国更加强大,从而葬送印度的发展机遇。可见所谓民主制度下的印度是一样的谎话连篇,封锁隐瞒欺骗一样有过之而无不及(70多年不见天日)。从全体民众的觉悟和教育程度来说,中国是渐渐地走在超越的前列,想不进步不强盛都不可能。