从这里了解印度人对中国的看法

两位贱民少女被强奸、吊死、挂树示众,全是种姓作怪

2014-06-08 10:43 79个评论 字号:

在我们弄清种姓暴行为何发生之前,类似巴峒案件不会稍减。目前为止, 同一个村庄有了许多不同版本。大批人聚拢在一棵树下。女人披着明亮醒目的头巾,与男人分开,一起席地而坐;男人们有些围在树前,有些站在女人们身后。多数围观者抬头仰望,好象观看正在进行健康意识教育的露天戏。有些照片上人们的脸庞清晰可见。

译者:ken
来源:http://bbs.santaihu.com/thread-8617-1-1.html
原址:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/opinion/edit-page/Until-we- recognise-caste-atrocities-for-what-they-are-they-will-continue-unabated-as-in-Badaun/articleshow/36010666.cms

资料图

资料图

Until we recognise caste atrocities for what they are, they will continue unabated as in Badaun

在我们弄清种姓暴行为何发生之前,类似巴峒案件不会稍减

By now, there are various versions of the same village scene. A crowd is gathered around a tree. The women, with their heads covered with ghunghats that have startlingly bright colours are all sitting on the ground together, away from the men who stand around the tree as well as behind the women.

目前为止, 同一个村庄有了许多不同版本。大批人聚拢在一棵树下。女人披着明亮醒目的头巾,与男人分开,一起席地而坐;男人们有些围在树前,有些站在女人们身后。

Most of the onlookers are looking up, as if some sort of street theatre with a health awareness message is underway. Some photographs capture the faces sharply. A man in a red shirt is looking into his mobile phone; an elderly woman with cotton-white wavy hair almost resting against the tree trunk is telling a younger group something; a young boy in long shorts and a checkered shirt is looking at the women as if trying to read their minds. A short man in a white shirt and grey trousers with his hands on his hips looks aghast, while another man with a brownish cloth across his shoulders looks dejected.Or angry. From this angle, it’s hard to tell.

多数围观者抬头仰望,好象观看正在进行健康意识教育的露天戏。有些照片上人们的脸庞清晰可见。一位穿红色衬衣的男子正注视着他的手机;一位白色鬈发的老妇人几乎靠在树干上,向一群比她年小的人们说着什么;一个身着长腿短裤、格子衬衣的少年看着那些女人, 象是要搞明白她们在想什么。有个白衬衣灰裤子的矮个子男人双手反背, 一脸惊愕;而另一位肩搭一条棕色毛巾的男子显得垂头丧气。也许是气愤,从这个角度很难看清楚。

There are some — a young girl in a mustard yellow dress, a boy in a red-and-black full-sleeved shirt and brown trousers, a slightly burly man in a white shirt — who are looking elsewhere. They are looking at us , viewers who have descended on their village via the medium of pictures and news reports. They see us literally through the lens of the photographer-journalists.

还有些–一位身穿褐黃色衣服的少女、一位上身红黑相间长袖衬衣,下着棕色裤子的男孩已及一位身材稍显魁悟, 穿白衬衫的男子,看向别处。他们在看我们这些通过媒体照片和新闻报道突然涌到他们村子的围观者。他们确实是在透过摄影记者的镜头看着我们。

Whichever photo you look at, it is a terribly ordinary rustic scene, the kind you mentally conjure up when thinking of one of those special gatherings that break the monotony of an Indian village life tableau. That is, until your gaze returns to what it came here at the beginning for: two bodies suspended from two sturdy branches of a mango tree.

不管你看哪张照片, 都是极为平常的乡村景象,就象你想到那些打破印度农村单调人生舞台的特别集会时,脑海里浮现的景象。直到回过神来, 到此的初始目的原来是:吊在芒果树结实树枝上的两具尸体。

Both figures are of slim girls with thin arms by their sides, their heads bent as if being berated by some angry grown-ups for slinking off to watch a movie on their own. One of the girls with her feet closer to the ground is wearing a pretty red kurta with white designs and blue loose trousers. The other, higher by some two feet and hanging from the branch radially opposite, is in a green salwar-kameez with white-and-yellow stitchwork. Both have bare feet.

两具都是细弱的姑娘,纤瘦的胳膊挂在身旁,她们垂着头,就象因为自个儿偷跑去看电影,正在被发火的大人训骂一样。其中一个脚离地更近, 穿着饰有白色图案的红色无领长衫、蓝色宽身裤。另一个比她高出地面约两英尺,挂在正对面的树枝上,一身带有黄白刺绣的绿色服装,开叉罩褂, 上宽下窄的裤子。两人都光着脚。

While we take in the contents of these photographs — of the two teenage girls who were raped and then left hanging from a tree last week in Katra Shadat Ganj village in Uttar Pradesh’s Badaun district — we also quietly take in a different set of information: so these are dalits in a UP village in 2014 India. Our brain searches and fails to find any distinguishing feature to mark it as a gathering of dalits. So this is how dalits look like, we tell ourselves.

从上周在北方邦巴峒区卡特拉.沙达特.干吉村遭强奸后被吊死挂在树上的两位十多岁姑娘的照片中, 我们获取了许多细节,同时,我们还悄悄地得到了另一些内容不同的祥情:她们是2014年印度北方邦一个村庄的贱民。我们的脑子思索开了, 但没能发现任何明显标记,能说明这是贱民聚集。因此我们告诉自已,这就是贱民的样子了。

As a pointless, urbane debate goes on about whether such horrifying images should be put out for general consumption, the fact that caste is an indelible marker for game-hunters continues to elude people who don’t live under its thrall. What the display in Badaun underlines is caste not just as demographic pie charts or identifiable target groups for social welfare programmes, but also as an all-too-visible bar code for higher castes in vast swathes of our sovereign socialist secular democratic republic to identify prey. Whether we like it or not, this dehumanising tradition thrives in states like Samajwadi Party-ruled UP under active encouragement.

事实上, 正是种姓这个擦不去的标记,让杀人嬉戏者不断避开不在其桎梏下生活的人们的关注,而这样令人恐惧的图像是否该为普通大众了解,对此展开的争辩显得温文尔雅、毫无意义。巴顿所展现的突显出,种姓不仅是人口统计饼图或社会福利计划识别标组,它还是个炫目的条形码, 让高阶种姓在我们主权社会世俗皿煮共和国的广袤大地上寻找猎物。不管我们是否喜欢,这种丧失人性的传统在一些州里,如社会党管辖的北方邦,受到积极鼓动而大肆泛滥。

Sexual violence against women is, of course, about inflicting power. But the same way the right motive needs to be ascertained to solve a murder, the prime motive behind the gang rape and murder of the two girls in Badaun needs to be identified and then recognized. The girls were hung up and displayed because they were dalits. The five alleged perpetrators from the Yadav community saw raping and killing their dalit victims as their adhikar, a right.

对妇女的性暴力,当然,是强施暴力。但是,正确动机需要以同样方式给予明确, 为了解决杀人案,先要查清、确认巴峒轮奸和杀害这两个女孩背后的主要动机。这两女孩被吊死、示众,就因为她们是贱民。那五名来自亚达夫(注:印度语中意为养牛人)群体的嫌犯把强奸、杀害他们的贱民受害者当作他们的adhikar–一种权利。

Unabated cases of violence against dalits — sexual or otherwise, reported, under-reported or unreported — have no real disincentive as they are clubbed, if not in law then in practice, with general acts of violence. The trophy rape and murder in Badaun, and those many other horrific acts of violence against dalits that precede and will follow it, may share many characteristics with equally horrific rape-murders that take place across the nation. But Badaun and countless other cases where dalits are chosen as victims because they are dalits are part of one giant, ongoing serial-killing spree where Manu-given rights have been joined with political protection.

报道的、没如实报道的、或未报道的针对贱民的连续暴力案件– 性侵或其它罪行,不是在法律上就是在实践中,遭到通常暴力行为的打击, 因而起不到真正的遏制作用。在巴顿发生的头号强奸杀人案,还有许多骇人听闻的、已发生和随后而来的、针对贱民的暴力案件,会与发生在全国各地同样骇人的强奸杀人案有着许多共同点。但是巴峒和其它无数案件中,贱民们被选作受害者,就因为他们是贱民,他们成了古代摩奴授权与现今政治庇护相互勾结之下,一㘯规模巨大,正在进行的序列杀人狂欢中的一部分。

Sitting pretty in urban, deracinated India where ‘being casteist’ means being vaguely outdated and a bit clannish as if caste was simply about some silly club rules, it is impossible to perceive what the five rapist-murderers sought to achieve by stringing up their two victims.

在与世隔绝的印度,’种姓分子’仅意味着略微落后于时代,有点排外,简单认为种姓就象一些愚蠢的俱乐部规则,住在城里安享其乐,是不可能察觉那五个强奸杀人犯把受害者吊尸的行为所追求的目的。

What they surely did see is something that we have conditioned ourselves to not see: that dalits are not ‘like any other village folk’. So instead of flinching, keep looking for clues to how dalits are seen by far too many ‘other village folks’ in those upsetting photographs until you are horrified enough to do something about it.

我们自设的环境让我们看不到一些亊情,而他们肯定实实在在地看到了:那就是,贱民们与“ 任何其他村民不同”。因此,不但不能退缩,还要坚持,在那些令人气恼的照片中寻找, 找出那么多’其他村民’是如何看待贱民的,直至你被震惊到要对此采取一些行动。

以下为评论:

venkatesh anandalwar (Location)

Caste system has existed in India since ages and the politicians have only taken advantage of the system and created a deeper divide for their own benefits. It is the same politicians who give power to their caste and atrocities on lower castes are for stamping their authority. Many of the villages are kept deliberately backward so that it benefits the local powerful men and they are the support on which the politicians ride and hence law does not apply to them.This can only end when the politicians stop exploiting the caste angle and development reaches every place. Recognizing cast atrocities and then preaching against caste is not going to help, while development will definitely change the mindset of the people.

种姓制度在印度存在已久,政客们只是为了自身利益,利用这个制度来制造更深的裂痕。同是这些政客, 为了彰显权威,一边给自己种姓的人们权力,一边对低种姓人民施加暴行。许多村庄被故意拖留在落后状态,让当地支持政客的权势人物从中获利,这样, 法律也约束不到权势人物。只有当政客们不再利用种姓谋利, 发展遍及各地,这种事情才会停止。承认种姓暴行,进行反种姓宣传帮不了忙,而发展绝对会改变人们的思维方式。

A.A.Choudhari ()

Dear Sir, People should understand that if Hindus have created Caste system, other religions also have their lapses. It is too politically mischievous, to blame Hindu religion for all the misdeeds. Mandal commission further aggravated the matter. Hindus might have treated certain communities as untouchables, but they have not killed the followers of other religion or formed ghettos of other communities on racist principles. I do admit that their were failings in the Hindu religion but we are truly open to improvement which other religions are not. SC/ST and my other friends in the Hindu community should realize this and need not shout at the top of their voice blaming only Hindu religion.

这位先生,人们应该理解的是,如果印度创造了种姓制度,那么其它宗教也有它们的不足之处。把所有恶行归罪于印度教, 政治恶意太明显。曼德尔专项工作组进一步恶化事态。印度教徒也许把某些群体作为贱民对待,但他们没有杀害其它宗教信徒,也没因种族信仰而使其它群体独聚一处。我承认印度教有失败之处,但我们真诚接纳进步,其它宗教却做不到。低种姓及部落民和我其他印度教群本的朋友应认识到这一点,不必扯尽嗓门一味责怪印度教。

arunesh.bhattacharya (Location)

Past few days it seems rural area and remote places are heaven for such criminals.Whatever they want to do they commit and go at large. Something state govt should do to check these issue.

过去几天里,乡村和一些偏远区域象是成了这类罪犯的天堂。他们想干什么坏事就干什么,然后逍遥法外。有些州政府应采取行动, 加以制止。

nim (India)

Saddened by this incident…. read some comments below and thought that still people are so much in their shell. Cast based atrocities (directed towards SC STs) is reality in India. We who live in metros, cities and urban areas are unaware about conditions of people in rural areas. I have personally visited and lived in some villages. Villages do have separate places for lower caste people. These dalits are kept outside villages, separately. Many a times they are denied entry into temples and other fundamental accesses. This condition is still prevalent and that is what bothers me. There are crimes which are specifically directed at dalits and they are reality even in modern times.
If we have to progress in true sense, we have to take all sections of society together in the flow of progress and development. Comprehensive growth is the only way!
Conditions of women in India…deeply saddened by the way our society looks at women..just as a toy of appeasement. There should be stricter laws. Death penalties should be imposed even in case of first rape(currently there is a provision of death penalty only for repeat rape cases). Awareness programs should be undertaken, Obscenity, nudity, vulgar display of women should be stopped.

这起事件让人伤心…读了一些下面的评论, 觉得人们还没有真正起来。基于种姓的暴行(针对…)在印度是个现实。我们住在大、小城市和城郊的人们並不了解乡村人民的情况。我自己曾在一些村庄生活过。许多村子确实有分开的低种姓住地。这些贱民被隔开, 不准进村。他们常常被不让进庙,其它必须去的地方也不让进。这种情况依然普遍, 让我担忧。很多犯罪就是对着贱民去的,既使在当今时代这还是现实。

如果我们要实现真正意义上的进步,我们必须把全社会各部分人民一起带入进步发展的洪流。全面发展是唯有道路。印度妇女的处境…我们社会看待妇女的方式让我深感悲伤…就象个玩物。法律应更严厉。即使第一次犯强奸罪也应判死刑(现在死刑只对强奸惯犯)。要进行觉悟教育,淫秽、裸体、庸俗的女人形象应被禁止。

mayank (Location)

I have been in UP for last 24 years. I can surely say there has been hardly any change in this span of time. Electricity, water and crime are more and less same as they were 24 years back. These politicians have only tried to dominate everyone to continue in power. I am ashamed of such politics.

我在北方邦已经24年了。我可以保证,在这时间段内几乎没有发生任何变化。电、水、犯罪多少还是跟24年前一样。这些政客只是力图控制所有人,让他们继续掌权。我为这种政治感到羞愧。

Praveen (Bangalore

There is nothing to do with caste. If there girls were Brahmins, they would have met with the same fate. It is combination of things. 1. Not law and order and no fear of law 2. No awareness to not toilets in the house and people use grounds 3. Diverting and diluting the case as caste and religion basis. Just deal with the case as a Rape case the deal firmly that is it and it will be solved.

那与种姓无关。如果她们是婆罗门, 遭遇也一样。这是许多因素造成的。1. 没有法制,不敬畏法律;2. 沒有在家如厕的意识,到野地里方便;3. 把案子转化成或加入种姓和宗教因素。只把案子当强奸案看待,坚决照此处理,问题就会解决。

arunmul2005 (Location) replies to Praveen

You moron, first of all you hindus created caste, then they made it hierarchical. Now when atrocities on pouring on lowest level in that hierarchy, you moron are saying there is no hierarchy made, atrocity happening in all levels of caste. You raciest guys needs to understand how some people (Lower caste) with no mistake are deliberately made poor because of their caste, they dont get opportunity to grow, so they are weak & can not stand for themselves. Their children are being targeted. All the morons of Hindu Religion needs to convert to atheist, then only India will progress. Even Modi do not have panacea for it.

你这笨蛋,首先,你们印度教徒创造了种姓,然后又把它分为各种等级。现在, 当各种暴行向这等级制的最低阶层倾泻时, 你笨蛋却说没有设置等级制,还说暴行在种姓低层随处发生。你们这些种族主义的家伙要知道,有些无辜的人(低种姓),仅因为他们的种姓而被地故意搞成穷人,他们没有得到发展的机会,因而处于弱势,无法自保。他们的子女成了受害靶子。所有印度教笨蛋需转为无神论者,只有这样印度才能进步。穆迪对此也没有灵药。

Crimson Tide (London) replies to arunmul2005

1diot. Upper caste Hindus never physically subjugated lower castes like dominant people all over the world did( every other inch of Earth outside Hindustan) Upper caste Hindus considered themselves superior and excelled in their fields, they like any upper class, dominant group wanted to lead separate lives and considered themselves better. If they did not want t touch lower castes, marry them – how is it against principle of natural justice? Injustice is done when you forcibly interfere in someone’s life. No Kings in Hindustan discriminated between castes. There was discrimination at level of community and that is justified. And more over discrimination also was from so called lower to forward castes. Any case I am not saying we should discriminate but everyone has right to discriminate at personal level in terms of his own property and person. And in modern India state is biased in favor of lower castes,

白痴,印度高种姓教徒从来不从身体上征服低种姓者,不像世界上各处(印度斯坦之外的每一寸土地)强势人群所为。高种姓印度教徒自认优越,在自己的领域胜过他人,跟任何高层阶级、优势群体一样,希望生活于他人之外,並自认为更加完美。如果他们不愿接触低种姓人群,不与他们通婚,怎么就违反自然正义原则了呢?强行干涉他人生活才是不公正。没有哪个印度斯坦国王对种姓各级有歧视。在社群层面上有歧视存在, 这在道理上是说得通的。而且,所谓的低种姓对高种姓也有歧视。所有例子中我都没说我们应该歧视,但就秉性和个体来说, 每个人都有权在个体层面上歧视。

arunmul2005 replies to Crimson Tide

Big Moron Tide i think you seems not aware with India. If we introspect There is no as such caste exist in reality, we all are human and that only matter. The one who have talent and hard work will progress in life -that is the rule of life. Point here i am trying to say is people here specially belong to lower caste, do not even get a right environment to get educated. And because they are illiterate, they never know what they are capable of. And so stronger men (Upper caste) take benefit of them. In the core, this all stems form hierarchy system of Hindu religion. On the contrary in developed country no such caste system exist, people dont discriminate in a way we do in India. Indians are most racist people in world, and hence, most retarded.

Tide你这大笨蛋,我认为你好象不了解印度。如果自省一下,就知道种姓並不存在,大家都属人类,这才是要紧的。有才能、努力工作的人生活才会有进展–这是生活规则。我在此要说明的一点是,特别是那些归为低种姓的人们, 甚至得不到接受教育的适当环境。就因为是文盲,他们从不知道自己能干什么。因此更强势的人们(高种姓)利用他们。说到底,一切都因印度教等级制度而起。与之相反,发达国家没有这样的种姓制度存在,人们不像我们印度这样歧视他人。印度人是世界上最具种族歧视的人群, 因而也最为弱智。

Crimson Tide replies to arunmul2005

These rapes were done by Yadavs against Dalits- both are low castes- just that Yadavas are more dominant. It is a class issue.

这些强奸是亚达夫人对贱民干的–两者都是下等种姓–只因亚达夫人更占优势。这是个阶级问题。

Crimson Tide replies to arunmul2005

oh yeah, and that is why there was no civil equality in US till 1965? There are class differences every country of the world. Racism is in every country of world. And Indian racism- aka caste- was the most humane system anywhere. Most other societies killed or enslaved other races. And upper castes never interfered in the personal liberty or property of lower castes- just they wanted to lead separate lives. And lack of education is present in all low classes around the world. The answer to is Government getting out of education system- private schools should have complete freedom.

噢,是啊,这就是为什么直到1965年美国都没有公民平等。世界上每个国家都有阶级差别。所有国家都有种族主义。而印度的种族主义, 也叫做种姓,是所有地方最为人道的体系。大多数别的社会杀戮、奴役其它民族。高种姓从不干涉低种姓的个人自由和财产–他们只要独自生活。全世界所有低层阶级都缺乏教育。解决办法是, 政府别插手教育系统–私人学校应该有完全的自由。

v srinivas (Hyderabad)

Why are atrocities being linked to caste? Therein lies the root of the whole problem. Atrocities are atrocities. Treat them as such

为什么把暴行与种姓揑在一起?这就是整个问题的根子所在。暴行归暴行,按暴行处置

Indian (India) replies to v srinivas

It is linked to the caste because lower-caste section is poor, helpless and under constant threats from the upper-caste who are effluent and powerful. Ever heard of exploitation, humiliation and injustice? Lower caste face it every day in rural and other part of the country.

因为低种姓人群贫穷无助 ,处在富有权势的高种姓人不断威嚇之中, 所人要把两者联系起来。从没听说过剝削、欺辱和不公正吗?在这个国家的农村和其它地方,低种姓每天都要面对这些。

kuldeep tyagi (Delhi)

These politician will never let the us come out of the casts

这些政客永远也不会让我们跳出种姓

sunil banathia ()

Matter again dragged onto Caste/Religion etc (As if author wants to justify rapes against women in other castes).. It’s all about Crime, Criminals and Law and Order. Kill such criminals in public places and send others a message.. crime will go down automatically.

事情又被扯到种姓/宗教等方面来了(看似作者想把强奸妇女归罪于其它种姓)…这完全是与犯罪、罪犯和法律秩序有关的问题。把这样的罪犯大庭广众之下处死, 给其他人一个警示…犯罪率自然就下去了。

coolka (chennai)

Caste division is a bane to this country. Education should have helped otherwise, however, with the caste based “reservation” system it has only made it worse. I recently heard of a highly education (Masters in Engineering), father of 2 fine girls, who has so badly chastised his elder daughter for having fallen in love with a “other caste” boy! He was apparently heard commenting, “Honor is more important. I may do the deed, if I have to”. We obviously know what the “deed” is.. India is eons behind in its thought process.

种姓划分是印度的祸根。教育要不然会有帮助,但是,来了个以种姓为基础的’预留’制,事情只是弄得更糟。我最近听说有一位受过高等教育(工程硕士),有两个优秀女儿的父亲,为了大女儿爱上’其它种姓’的男孩,十分凶狠地训斥女儿。人们清晰地听到他说“ 荣誉更重要。我也许会干出大事来,如果我不得不干”。很明显,我们都知道他说的’大事’是什么… 印度落后于自已的思想进程亿万年。

Om (Sikar)

Caste atrocities , done by dominated caste in village or in area ,this is the result of semi feudal society prevailing in our country, in which a great differences of among society high caste and low caste .Dominated class has control over local admn, and on Govt. Being control of dominated class over Govt, persons belong to dominated class, ,have no care or fear of Govt. They do any atrocity on weaken and low caste man or women.

村庄或地方优势种姓实施种姓暴行,原因是我们国家中普遍存在的半封建社会,高种姓和低种姓社会有巨大差别。优势阶层控制当地行政和政府。作为控制政府的阶层,对政府不存恐惧。他们对低种姓人民,不管男人、女人,实施暴力。

友荐云推荐
  1. 印度媒体人士有权利也有义务告诉印度人民种姓制度的野蛮与落后,它是目前阻碍印度文明与进步的最大的绊脚石,是既得利益集团为维护其既得利益从意识形态领域奴役印度广大人民的精神枷锁……起来,不愿做贱民的印度人民!!!(

  2. 妇女受尊重的程度是一个国家社会文明的重要标志,印度在这方面还很落后,甚至是野蛮。这种对社会弱势群体的施暴,单靠无法避免“多数的暴力”的皿煮是不能解决的。即便“一人一票”又能如何?

    • 其实这是一个伪命题,试问给你如此选择:被强奸之后选择被:A、烧死;B、吊死;C、碾死。——给你再多选票又有何用。就像美国政治,其实两党上台对国内统治真的有决定性改变吗?决定国内秩序的无非还是国内法律制度的既定规则罢了,所以很多人根本就无所谓哪方上台,根本票都懒得投。

  3. 印度政府和人民永远都处在自我吹嘘.自我幻想的世界里,在中华人民共和国建立时就提出以(为人民服务)为宗旨,历届领导都在贯彻这一宗旨,中国一直以人人平等.依法治国.以民为本的政策方针办事,这些哪是愚昧.弱智的印度政府和人民所能理解的,所以印度会一直这样拉鸡下去,谁也改变不了。

  4. 印度教垃圾宗教,可能印度教本质是好的,但是可怕的是人们对于印度教的曲解、盲目,愚昧的按照自己不理性的理解方式去破坏他人的生命安全和财产。

  5. 21世纪了 号称世界最大皿煮国家印度的人民 还在讨论人是不是应该天生就平等 穆迪大人 你怎么看

  6. 印度人民需要一场彻底的革命,才能根除落后腐朽的东西。不来一场彻底的革命,甭管是墓地还是墓碑,甚至棺材也解决不了印度诸多的问题。

  7. 从评论看,他们依旧不想承认自己种姓制度的缺点。其实作为对手,我们巴不得他们别改变种姓制度。就让他们烂去吧

  8. 我算了一下,所有发言及回复中:明着维护种姓的有五条:“所有恶行归罪于印度教, 政治恶意太明显。”“那与种姓无关。”(没有法制)“印度高种姓教徒从来不从身体上征服低种姓者。”(从后面发言来看,这绝对是一个高种姓,他认为“高级人”是有权利歧视“低级人”,并且认为犯罪行为都是低种姓人做出的)“为什么把暴行与种姓揑在一起?”“事情又被扯到种姓/宗教等方面来了”不提种姓,包括暗着维护种姓,将矛头指向别的方面有三条:“种姓制度在印度存在已久”“进行反种姓宣传帮不了忙”(政客的错)“乡村和一些偏远区域象是成了这类罪犯的天堂。”(偏远 政府不作为)“这些政客只是力图控制所有人,让他们继续掌权。”(政客的错)反对种姓(包括意思里表达种姓制度不好以及人民阶级不平等的部分)有六条:“我们必须把全社会各部分人民一起带入进步发展的洪流。”“大家都属人类,这才是要紧的。”(这似乎是一个无神论者或者穆斯林)“从没听说过剝削、欺辱和不公正吗?”“这些政客永远也不会让我们跳出种姓”(虽然也指责政客但起码表达了种姓不好,“let the us come out”也许他是一个吠舍,或低种姓)“种姓划分是印度的祸根。”(这个是最明确反对的,但后面对预留制的反对总觉得他的立场有点可疑,或者也是一个吠舍,或“开明的高种姓”)高种姓和低种姓社会有巨大差别。忧心忡忡反对预留制的有(预留者是指印度法律规定,教育和公职方面必须给低种姓预留最低限度的份额,是一种反种姓措施)“政府别插手教育系统–私人学校应该有完全的自由。”“来了个以种姓为基础的’预留’制,事情只是弄得更糟。”上面在毫不相干的话题中反对预留制的两人,很奇妙,一个是明显的种姓主义者,所有发言中无一不充斥着“高等人”的傲慢,认为自己比“低等人”优越是理所当然的;而另一个人表面看来,是一个种姓反对者,真是耐人寻味。由上面这堆发言就可以明白,为什么国外的印度人,提到种姓大多数时候是否认种姓仍然存在,或者“只有少数偏远地区”存在,反正自己身边是没有的这种看法。一者,他们习惯了下层人民卑微的工作态度,并不认为这是歧视,这只是“正常工作”。二者,民族自豪感,维护自己超级大国的面子。最后最关键的当然是,他们所见之处,并没有那些极度卑微的人存在,或触目不及,或视而不见。

  9. 我觉得三哥的这种事情以前就很多,只是现在媒体和人民开始关注了,被爆出来之后,大家开始发出声音了,对于三哥的这些事情基友同情,也会有一种悲伤,种姓制度害人啊

  10. 中国为了扫除封建残余也是流了不少血啊,不管怎么说,中国女人地位相比周围国家的女人,权利、地位都高得多。妇女能抵半边天真是中国之幸。

  11. 可怜的女孩,我觉得生活在印度低种姓的女孩是可怜的,虽然这种针对女性的暴力案件在全世界都有,但是我发现在印度尤为严重,也许天朝也有诸多不好,但是我也是生活在中国的普通女生,至少有人欺负,可以变成女汉子把别人给揍一顿!

    • 在亚洲来说,韩国妇女的地位是比较高的,日本虽也属于发达国家,但在发达国家当中,妇女地位是比较低的,甚至低于中国

      • 日本妇女地位不能用“甚至”这个词,日本妇女地位是本来就很低,日本本质来说应该是封建制度和平演变到现在,并没有一种彻底的革新,日本财团、豪贵很多都是代代相传的。现在日本女人因为现代文明的演变看起来也是个性独立,但还是有很多传统痕迹,比如很多日本女孩,如果不是特别优秀,高中之后就不太有动力选择拼命进学,并不像中国女性,更多以“自我”角度考虑问题:即我出社会以后要找好工作,要拿高工资,要(靠自己)过好生活;并不会直接考虑结婚嫁人靠老公。日本女性虽然也不是说直接想法就是嫁人“吃老公”,但行为模式还是带有这种思想痕迹,很多人不进学后工作也是可以随便找一份“过日子”的工作,不是很努力找“挣大钱”的工作,似乎是在等待丈夫的出现,有老公了,条件允许就随时可以转为职业主妇,不允许也是打着那份工,有冲劲独立的相对比较少。韩国女性说高是高,但是韩国的传统模式比日本更甚,韩国是非常讲长幼尊卑的,一个平辈的女性和一个男性在一起,即使这个女性只比这个男性小一天,也必须称呼男性“欧巴”(哥哥),但反过来就似乎没有这种现象。韩国在社会上的职业女性,也许和常人无异,但是在家庭里面,尤其是大家族,这种上下辈分是非常严格的,作为小媳妇是不能随便逾越的。

  12. venkatesh anandalwar (Location)Caste system has existed in India since ages and the politicians have only taken advantage of the system and created a deeper divide for their own benefits. It is the same politicians who give power to their caste and atrocities on lower castes are for stamping their authority. Many of the villages are kept deliberately backward so that it benefits the local powerful men and they are the support on which the politicians ride and hence law does not apply to them.This can only end when the politicians stop exploiting the caste angle and development reaches every place. Recognizing cast atrocities and then preaching against caste is not going to help, while development will definitely change the mindset of the people.种姓制度在印度存在已久,政客们只是为了自身利益,利用这个制度来制造更深的裂痕。同是这些政客, 为了彰显权威,一边给自己种姓的人们权力,一边对低种姓人民施加暴行。许多村庄被故意拖留在落后状态,让当地支持政客的权势人物从中获利,这样, 法律也约束不到权势人物。只有当政客们不再利用种姓谋利, 发展遍及各地,这种事情才会停止。承认种姓暴行,进行反种姓宣传帮不了忙,而发展绝对会改变人们的思维方式。而发展绝对会改变人们的思维方式。。。西方大腕一直认为发展会让中国人接受西方皿煮和意识形态。。。结果呢。。。眼镜碎一地。。。我相信三哥也能做到很好保存那些让西方嘬牙花子的国家传统。。。

  13. A.A.Choudhari ()Dear Sir, People should understand that if Hindus have created Caste system, other religions also have their lapses. It is too politically mischievous, to blame Hindu religion for all the misdeeds. Mandal commission further aggravated the matter. Hindus might have treated certain communities as untouchables, but they have not killed the followers of other religion or formed ghettos of other communities on racist principles. I do admit that their were failings in the Hindu religion but we are truly open to improvement which other religions are not. SC/ST and my other friends in the Hindu community should realize this and need not shout at the top of their voice blaming only Hindu religion.这位先生,人们应该理解的是,如果印度创造了种姓制度,那么其它宗教也有它们的不足之处。把所有恶行归罪于印度教, 政治恶意太明显。曼德尔专项工作组进一步恶化事态。印度教徒也许把某些群体作为贱民对待,但他们没有杀害其它宗教信徒,也没因种族信仰而使其它群体独聚一处。我承认印度教有失败之处,但我们真诚接纳进步,其它宗教却做不到。低种姓及部落民和我其他印度教群本的朋友应认识到这一点,不必扯尽嗓门一味责怪印度教。这个三哥努力的为印度教抹白。。。可是那空洞苍白的理由就像一桶黑漆。。。抹来抹去印度教也是三哥贱民的肤色。。。

  14. mayank (Location)I have been in UP for last 24 years. I can surely say there has been hardly any change in this span of time. Electricity, water and crime are more and less same as they were 24 years back. These politicians have only tried to dominate everyone to continue in power. I am ashamed of such politics.我在北方邦已经24年了。我可以保证,在这时间段内几乎没有发生任何变化。电、水、犯罪多少还是跟24年前一样。这些政客只是力图控制所有人,让他们继续掌权。我为这种政治感到羞愧。我不信。。。我不信。。。皿煮可是终极制度。。。怎么可能24年不变。。。明显是抹黑伟大的超级大国易怒的。。。所以我认为。。。放宠物。。。简单。。。快来收拾这个印度五毛。。。拯救他的灵魂。。。

  15. mayank (Location)I have been in UP for last 24 years. I can surely say there has been hardly any change in this span of time. Electricity, water and crime are more and less same as they were 24 years back. These politicians have only tried to dominate everyone to continue in power. I am ashamed of such politics.我在北方邦已经24年了。我可以保证,在这时间段内几乎没有发生任何变化。电、水、犯罪多少还是跟24年前一样。这些政客只是力图控制所有人,让他们继续掌权。我为这种政治感到羞愧。我不信。。。我不信。。。皿煮可是终极制度。。。怎么可能24年不变。。。明显是抹黑伟大的超级大国印度斯坦。。。所以我认为。。。放宠物。。。简单。。。快来收拾这个印度五毛。。。拯救他的灵魂。。。

  16. arunmul2005 (Location) replies to PraveenYou moron, first of all you hindus created caste, then they made it hierarchical. Now when atrocities on pouring on lowest level in that hierarchy, you moron are saying there is no hierarchy made, atrocity happening in all levels of caste. You raciest guys needs to understand how some people (Lower caste) with no mistake are deliberately made poor because of their caste, they dont get opportunity to grow, so they are weak & can not stand for themselves. Their children are being targeted. All the morons of Hindu Religion needs to convert to atheist, then only India will progress. Even Modi do not have panacea for it.你这笨蛋,首先,你们印度教徒创造了种姓,然后又把它分为各种等级。现在, 当各种暴行向这等级制的最低阶层倾泻时, 你笨蛋却说没有设置等级制,还说暴行在种姓低层随处发生。你们这些种族主义的家伙要知道,有些无辜的人(低种姓),仅因为他们的种姓而被地故意搞成穷人,他们没有得到发展的机会,因而处于弱势,无法自保。他们的子女成了受害靶子。所有印度教笨蛋需转为无神论者,只有这样印度才能进步。穆迪对此也没有灵药。哇。。。明目张胆的宣传无神论。。。难道战忽局也兴翻墙了。。。

  17. kuldeep tyagi (Delhi)These politician will never let the us come out of the casts这些政客永远也不会让我们跳出种姓哦。。。嗯。。。好吧。。。祝政客长寿。。。

  18. coolka (chennai)Caste division is a bane to this country. Education should have helped otherwise, however, with the caste based “reservation” system it has only made it worse. I recently heard of a highly education (Masters in Engineering), father of 2 fine girls, who has so badly chastised his elder daughter for having fallen in love with a “other caste” boy! He was apparently heard commenting, “Honor is more important. I may do the deed, if I have to”. We obviously know what the “deed” is.. India is eons behind in its thought process.种姓划分是印度的祸根。教育要不然会有帮助,但是,来了个以种姓为基础的’预留’制,事情只是弄得更糟。我最近听说有一位受过高等教育(工程硕士),有两个优秀女儿的父亲,为了大女儿爱上’其它种姓’的男孩,十分凶狠地训斥女儿。人们清晰地听到他说“ 荣誉更重要。我也许会干出大事来,如果我不得不干”。很明显,我们都知道他说的’大事’是什么… 印度落后于自已的思想进程亿万年。明明都用手处理菊花和嘴。。。仅仅是思想吗。。。

  19. mayank (Location)I have been in UP for last 24 years. I can surely say there has been hardly any change in this span of time. Electricity, water and crime are more and less same as they were 24 years back. These politicians have only tried to dominate everyone to continue in power. I am ashamed of such politics.我在北方邦已经24年了。我可以保证,在这时间段内几乎没有发生任何变化。电、水、犯罪多少还是跟24年前一样。这些政客只是力图控制所有人,让他们继续掌权。我为这种政治感到羞愧。——-这个阿三说的实话吗?

  20. 感谢陈胜吴广,他们那一嗓子撬动了中国人等级制度。在此之前一直是诸侯掌权,之后出了第一平民出身的皇帝。印度没有陈吴,他们种姓了。欧洲没有赢政,他们欧共体还是半调子。中国人是最据有反抗精神的,看下历史,中国的起义造反是最多的。